In Episode 50, the ITP team explores how the Toronto Transit Commission (TTC) is using technology to improve streetcar safety. Mass Transit magazine Associate Editor Brandon Lewis speaks with Stuart Green, TTC spokesperson, about a nine-month pilot placing cameras on four streetcars to capture license plates of vehicles that illegally pass open streetcar doors while passengers are boarding or exiting. The technology, adapted from systems used to enforce school-bus stop laws, is designed to collect data that could support future enforcement while ultimately serving as a deterrent to dangerous driving.

The episode closes with Brandon and Roads and Bridges Staff Writer Jessica reflecting on the ITP’s milestone 50th episode and thanking the guests, production team, colleagues and listeners who have helped the podcast reach this point.

Listen time

38:38

About the guest

Stuart Green is a spokesperson for the Toronto Transit Commission.

Here is a transcript from the episode:

BL: Welcome back to another edition of the Infrastructure Technology Podcast. I am Brandon Lewis, the associate editor at Mass Transit magazine, and I am back here today with my partner in crime from Roads and Bridges, the staff writer, Jessica Parks. Jess, how's it going today?

JP: It's going great. I'm excited the dynamic duo is back together. Gavin is at PWX in Houston right now, so he cannot join us today, but as always, me and Brandon are here to hold down the fort. I don't think we missed an episode yet.

BL: Indeed. And Jess, today is not just any episode on the ITP. Of course, it is a podcast day. It is a Tuesday, but it is also episode number 50 of the Infrastructure Technology podcast. How have we survived 50 episodes?

JP: I mean, you did it. You've been here since the beginning. I came on a little later, but it's been fun creating content for everybody. I love it. I love being a part of the podcast team. We span across so many topics and hope you guys have always stayed interested, and it's episode 50. Thanks for making it here.

BL: Absolutely. And of course, as always, we are now available on video. So if you want to watch us on this podcast, go to the Infrastructure Technology Podcast YouTube channel. Also, Mass Transit, Roads and Bridges, we are available on almost all the socials: X, Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn. Email us at [email protected]. I have an interesting interview that we're going to get to a little bit later with Stuart Green, who's a spokesperson at the Toronto Transit Commission, but first, Jess, I understand you have a little trivia game that we're going to play.

JP: Yeah, I just got a couple quick trivia questions for you, Brandon, on the Roads and Bridges side. I did try to keep them a little easy for you. We do actually at Roads and Bridges on our website, we do trivia every Tuesday. I release a trivia question. Those are a little more technical as they're for our audience, but we have discussed some of these questions since I've been handling the trivia, so if that's something you guys are interested in, definitely check out our Trivia Tuesday that's released every Tuesday morning, so we'll jump right into it, Brandon. So I just came up with four questions that talk about our landmarks and famous history and intuitive concepts. So let's discuss. My first question for you is on a famous landmark, which you might be familiar with as you selected it for the infrastructure draft.

BL: Okay.

JP: That is the San Francisco's Golden Gate Bridge. 

BL: Oh, I like that.

JP: It's famous for its distinct reddish orange color. Do you know the official name of this paint color? Here are your options. Flame orange is A. B, international orange. C, Golden Gate red. Or D, rust sunset. Those are your four options for the official color.

BL: I feel like I've heard this before. I feel like we might've discussed this on the ITP before. I don't think it's C. C just seems way too obvious to me, and I don't think for some reason it's flame, so I'm going to go with B is the correct answer.

JP: International Orange?

BL: Yes.

JP: Yes, that is correct. The color is selected not only because it compliments the bridge's natural surroundings, but also because it enhances visibility for passing ships in San Francisco's heavy fog. At one point before they selected International Orange, I think maybe it was the US Navy, it was suggested that it be yellow and black striped, which would've been a very different image for us. 

BL: Yes, it would. It would definitely pop, but I don't know about the visibility at night. That would be interesting.

JP: Yeah. So I'm happy they didn't go with that.

BL: Also, it wouldn't even match the city. It would look like Gavin’s hometown of Pittsburgh.

JP: Yeah, exactly. Maybe for Pittsburgh, it makes sense. You're right. Okay, now we're going into highway history. So in 1956, President Dwight D. Eisenhower signed the law that created the US interstate highway system. What primary reason prompted his strong advocacy for national highways after World War II? Now, he did sign it for several reasons. Only one of these is in the multiple choice I'll give you and it's kind of considered the primary reason at the time. So A, to encourage cross country road trips and tourism. B, national defense and rapid military mobilization. C, lowering gas prices for commute routes or D, standardizing speed limits across state lines.

BL: Ooh, those are all good options. Obviously right after World War II, and I'm not the biggest history buff in the world, but I'm guessing that it wasn't just for the war purposes. I would think there would be a bigger purpose behind it. The gas prices thing, I don't know because I feel like even back then every state would have sort of their own pricing based off inflation and the cost of living. I think the most sense would probably be A, just in terms of traveling, so that's going to be my answer.

JP: You are incorrect. It is B for national defense and rapid military mobilization.

BL: Really?

JP: Eisenhower was inspired by experience with the German auto bond network during World War II in a painstaking 1919 US Army cross country convoy that took nearly two months to cross the country on unpaved roads. So creating a better transportation network does allow for military supplies and crews to get across the country faster and especially with the fear of atomic warfare at the time, too. Rapid mobilization was deemed to be necessary.

BL: That makes sense. I guess I just never thought of let's build this super highway system to get them there faster compared to what it turns out to be today. 

JP: It was for other reasons, too. Economics, boosting the economy, roads were getting more congested. So there were several reasons.

BL: That was my first thought was congestion. And then when you didn't give that answer, that's why it moved towards A.

JP: Yep, I tried to keep it, not make it too confusing. And then also I'd like to mention while we're discussing this is Roads and Bridges is releasing a content package with all different content surrounding the 70th anniversary of the US interstate highway system being signed. So it's been 70 years this year because it was signed in 1956. So definitely stay tuned on our website for that. It'll be a fun project and definitely interactive, and we'll have a lot going on for you guys to look at. So take a peek once it's fully released. Okay. Now would it be road trivia if we didn't talk about Route 66? Which is also celebrating its 100th year anniversary this year. So historic US Route 66, known as the Mother Road, originally spanned over 2,400 miles, which two major U.S. Cities served as its official starting and ending points? A, New York City and San Francisco. B, St. Louis and Seattle. C, Chicago and Los Angeles or D, Detroit and San Diego?

BL: Gavin's going to be so embarrassed when I say this probably because I have no idea what the answer to this question is. Again, my geography's going to be tested very well in this ITP. I appreciate you and Gavin bringing it up fully to the table. I have no idea how I passed World History In college. Barely, but I did. So it was New York to San Francisco, you said?

JP: Yes.

BL: Chicago to LA. Detroit to San Diego. And then what was the last one?

JP: St. Louis and Seattle.

BL: St. Louis to Seattle. I don't think that would be it. New York to San Diego, no. I'm going to say Detroit to San Diego.

JP: You were about as close as you could get without being great. Chicago and Los Angeles.

BL: Okay.

JP: So it goes across eight states, and it goes all the way from Chicago across eight states is Santa Monica Pier in California. Route 66 is an icon. It passes right through my town in Tulsa, Oklahoma.

BL: See, and I knew that, so that's why I was thinking how do you get there? And I know my whole thought process was, okay, go to Tulsa because you talked about it on your road trip, on your way to Tulsa, so I was like, okay, what is closer there, Detroit or Chicago? And I guess I messed up.

JP: Yep. You were close though. Hey, that was the closest one to being right, so you were close. You had it in your head, just had to move a little.

BL: I just had to move some states around.

JP: Yeah. I actually was on Route 66 yesterday. I took my dad for a Route 66 tour through the city. So yeah, it's still really cool, all the neon signs and everything. It's a fun trip. Okay. This one is now on road signs. So why were stop signs changed to their modern red octagon shape in 1954? A, red paint was too expensive and prone to fading before the 1950s. B, drivers complained that red signs were too distracting at night. C, octagons were reserved only for rail crossings until 1954. Or D, red was legally restricted to fire vehicles only.

BL: Ooh. Okay. I feel like D and C are traps. I don't think either of those, so I'm going to take those two out. So could you please, again real quick for me, go over A and B?

JP: Okay. A is red paint was too expensive and prone to fading before the 1950s, or B, drivers complained that red signs were too distracting at night.

BL: Okay. So here's where I'm at. It probably is A because it sounds so stupid that that would be the. I'm just being totally honest with you people that red paint was too expensive, so let's change it because that's the way it probably was done in the 1950s, but I think B would probably make more sense, so I'm going to go with a logical answer and go B, but it is probably A. Am I right?

JP: It's A. 

BL: I knew it.

JP: Okay. So early stop signs starting in the 1920s were actually yellow with black lettering because durable red dyes that wouldn't quickly fade in direct sunlight hadn't been developed yet. Once fade resistant porcelain enamel and synthetic red coatings became affordable in the 1950s, standardizing red for a stop became possible.

BL: Okay. I don't care that you guys know this. I am Googling this right now what a yellow stop sign looked like. Okay. I see now why they changed it.

JP: Yeah, it's not a good look. Yeah, and yellow doesn't mean stop.

BL: Yellow looks like mustard. Yeah, I mean, depending on who you talk to. If you talk to my dad, yellow means floor it as fast as you can.

JP: Yep, I'm in between. It depends.

BL: Well, speaking of in between, one of the things that we should not be doing is going through stop signs on Streetcars, and that's what we talk about today with my interview with TTC spokesperson Stewart Green. Of course, the Toronto Transit Commission Streetcar is one of the most well-known transit options there in the city of Toronto, and the city has been dealing with, if you will, these issues where there had been from a period of 2014 to 2024, over 100 deaths due to vehicles while boarding or exiting streetcars, so this technology really helps there on the safety front of it. And when we come back, we will discuss it on this episode 50 of the ITP. Maz, why don't you go in and take us away to my interview with Stuart?

BL: Stuart, thank you for joining me today on the Infrastructure Technology Podcast.

SG: Sure. Happy to be here.

BL: Well, thank you. And today we're going to be talking about a recently launched pilot program that TTC, you guys recently launched this pilot. It's going to be a nine-month pilot, and it's a safety pilot, and you guys are installing cameras designed to catch road users who legally pass open street car doors. So we're going to start off today by talking about how does this pilot actually work?

SG: Yeah, I'll step back a little bit. Toronto has a unique system with our trams or our street cars in so much as they operate in mixed traffic by and large. We do have a few routes where street cars operate in dedicated rights of way, but most of the network is in mixed traffic. And by that, I mean that the street cars are operating in the outside lane of a two-lane road, for example. And on the curb lane, you have active live traffic. So you could have cars, drivers, cyclists, e-scooters, whatever you have on the road passing a stopped street car. The rule, however, the law in the province of Ontario is that you must stop behind a stopped street car with the doors open and the lights flashing. That's in what's called the Highway Traffic Act. That's the legislation. It's a ticketable offense. It carries the merit points that go towards your insurance rating and all of that. So very clearly the rules are set from a safety perspective because you can imagine that as people are stepping off of the curb into a live lane of traffic and onto a streetcar, the potential for them to be hit and killed is real. So many, many years ago this was identified as requiring provincial legislation that was done. However, we still have people that are getting hit. Our most recent data shows that between 2014 and 2024, so over a 10-year period, we had 141 instances of people being struck by cars passing open street car doors as people were getting on or off these street cars, so this is a real problem that we've got to address. And really this initiative now is about enhancing the safety element of that, both the law and the very clear decals that we have on the vehicles themselves and the streetcars that say you must stop behind the open streetcar doors. Unfortunately, people still don't get that message. We see now there are a lot of people with the advent of rideshare in particular over the last several years, we're seeing a lot more people driving in the city of Toronto who are new to driving in the city of Toronto. And unfortunately that comes with an obligation on our part to advise them of what the rules of the road are around streetcars. As I say, streetcars in Toronto are a bit of a novel thing. You do see in some European cities, I've been in Amsterdam for example, and you see the trams sort of moving down a pedestrian right of way, but there's no cars. And in other places you have a light rail or a tram system where they're separated from cars. And unfortunately in Toronto we do have still a significant portion of that streetcar network that is operating mixed traffic, and that's really what this program is about.

BL: Yeah, I was going to say streetcars, while some agencies have them, Philadelphia has them, San Diego has them in the U.S., New Orleans has them as well. Not every city has them. So maybe just for the listener out there who may not be familiar with a streetcar, can you talk about the difference between that and a typical rail service, let's say?

SG: Yeah, so I mean it's essentially a light-rail service that operates in mixed traffic. I mean, anyone who's been to, I don't know, say San Francisco, for example, they have a very similar kind of thing. Theirs is a bit more novelty based. Some of our TTC Streetcars are actually operating in San Francisco, which is a fun fact. So really you're talking about a light-rail system that's operating in a roadway. So for anyone that's listening, I'm sure they've seen different sizes of light rails. It's a Bombardier now Alstom vehicle called a Flexicity. It's a standard used around the world, that particular vehicle. But as I say, Toronto is unique in the sense that they are running in mixed traffic alongside cars.

BL: So now let's talk about the technology behind this pilot.

SG: Sure. So what we've done is, so the safety piece of this, the conversation around the safety of ensuring that our customers that are getting on and off streetcars are safe started obviously many years ago. We've looked at a number of different things. As I say, we've got large decals, flashing red lights. There are any number of ways that people should know to stop behind these vehicles. So given that it's still not having the 100% effect that we want, the conversation was how can we increase adherence to the rule that you have to stop behind those open doors? So one of the pieces of technology that we started talking about was cameras. So they are used, for example, in many municipalities in the world, you have cameras that are used for speed control, for running red lights and for passing school buses, stop school buses, which in many places, I'm not sure about every city in North America, but certainly in a lot of cities, you have to stop when a school bus is parked, and it puts out that stop sign in both directions. It doesn't matter.

BL: That's what I was going to ask. Is this similar to that?

SG: So in fact, and the reason I mentioned that one is because the company that we've partnered with, Gateway, is based out of, Gatekeeper, pardon me, is based out of Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada, and their technology is exactly for school buses. That is a huge issue. You've got children that are crossing the street in both directions, including the opposite direction from the park. Most people know you have to stop and not everyone does, so that technology was used for school buses. We have worked with them over the last probably year or two to really fine tune how we can take that basic concept of a camera on a vehicle that moves with the vehicle, but is capturing information when the vehicle is stopped. So how could we adapt that to this streetcar situation? So we spent time looking at where do we place the cameras on the streetcar? How do we angle them? Because of course there are privacy concerns. We can't be recording into people's living rooms. And because of the nature of Toronto's network, some of these streetcars are stopping very close to stores and in some cases residential. So we had to be very mindful of that, so it's all about how we angle the cameras, where we put the cameras so that we're both respecting privacy, but we're also able to capture the information we need in order to issue tickets, which is critically a license plate. So we've spent that time, we've developed that now. And what we've got is we've got cameras on four different streetcars and those streetcars will be operating on all of the routes where the streetcars are operating in mixed traffic. So where they're operating in their own rights of way, I'll use the term Spedina or St. Clair, these don't mean much to people who are not in Toronto, but those are two routes where we have dedicated rights of way of the streetcar. We won't use them there for this pilot. During the nine-month pilot, we'll send those four streetcars out onto every other route where we don't have dedicated rights of way, and we'll test them. We will not be issuing tickets because we simply don't have the ability yet to capture or to administer the tickets. There's a whole other piece that comes with that. You need somebody who can take the information, who can process a ticket and that'll be the second piece of this. But right now what we're doing, we're going to capture information over the next nine months. And then what we'll do is we'll say, ‘Hey, we've got a business case now. We've looked at this over the last nine months, and we've seen X number of people that are still passing open streetcar directs’. And by the way, anyone who's ever been to Toronto or who lives in Toronto knows and sees this happen every single day. So nevermind that people aren't being hit. It is still happening. I was on a streetcar this morning and a car blew past the open door. It happens every single day. We want to capture that information and be able to say, ‘look, we've got a case here to expand this to our entire network of 264 streetcars, not just the first four, but 260 more streetcars’, and that's really where we think we're going to get to because we know as the transit operator and what we hear from our customers, what we hear from our operators is that every single day this is happening, putting people at risk. We know it's happening, but now we need to be able to substantiate that with data and with information and say, ‘we told you so’, and here's our business case to move this forward and then work on the ticketing piece of it. All of which, by the way, is intended to be a deterrent. So the word gets out as our most laws intended to be deterrent. We don't want to capture people after the fact. We want people to stop. We don't want them putting our customers at risk, so that's really where we want to get. We want to get to a place where every streetcar is equipped with these, where everybody who's driving on the roads is well aware. And by the way, that would require an information campaign that reminds people that, ‘hey, if you pass an open streetcar door, your license plate will be captured, you'll be ticketed, and you'll be fined, and you'll potentially get demerit points as well’, so that's really where we want to get to is that deterrent factor.

BL: So Stuart, obviously people don't try to break the law on purpose, but you say that this happens every single day. I guess my question for you is why is that? Is it similar to people going through bus signs where it's like some people just think I'm not going to get caught, there's not going to be a penalty, nothing's going to happen. And how do you solve that issue? Because it's clearly an issue no matter what.

SG: Oh yeah, no question. I mean, short of putting giant arms, like concrete blocks that drop down when the streetcar stops so that if you hit your car into it, you'll know. This is one of the ways we're trying to encourage it. I mean, it's a fair point. We have tried many different tactics over the years to get this message out there, but it has certainly become an issue the more people that are driving the city that aren't aware. So how we get the message through to those people that you have to stop is critically important? I don't know why it keeps happening. I mean, there are giant flashing lights, there are signs, there's all this information on the streetcar itself. So is it a case of people just not paying attention? Is it a case of people who think, ‘Oh, maybe I can do a cheeky little pass’? And by the way, the new streetcars that we have are much longer and have four doors than our old streetcars don’t. So in the past, you would see people sort of, the streetcar would stop and before the doors open, people would try and do a cheeky little past them because they don't want to be stuck behind a streetcar. That is much, much harder to do with these longer streetcars. It also means that the risk is greater because if you're coming up to the back of a streetcar, and you're going to try and blow past a streetcar that's 100 or maybe not 100 feet.

BL: And I would imagine though the different types of cars is a factor too, if you have a smaller car versus a bigger car.

SG: Yeah. And there is room, and you see it where people sort of are in that kind of no man's land. They get caught between two sets of doors. There is enough room between the sets of doors for a car to fully stop. So if, for example, you sort of think you're going to be able to creep past the streetcar before the doors open and then they suddenly open, there is room to stop behind the door that doesn't block the second set of doors or the third set of doors. So there is room there for people to stop, and you do see that happening. It's not ideal, but at least people are stopping before they're passing an open door because there are cases, and I drive in Toronto. I know that I've seen it, where the streetcar may be out of service, and the doors are not going to open or the streetcar has just closed its doors, and it's parked at a red light, and you can sort of drive past it. We don't love when people do that, but technically you're only supposed to really stop when the doors are open. What we want to do is have people stop all the time. So in fact, a year ago or so, we launched a campaign called We Stop, You Stop, where we put massive bumper stickers on every streetcar. So now every streetcar has us on there. And what we're trying to reinforce is that even if the doors aren't open, you still should stop behind the streetcar, appreciating it's not against the law to pass the streetcar with closed doors, but in a perfect world, you just stop fully behind the streetcar, let it do what it needs to do in terms of getting people on and off safely and then you can carry on.

BL: So Stuart, how long did it take from the idea to the launch of the pilot? And then secondly, the nine month length, why was that the right amount of time to set up for the pilot?

SG: Yeah, so this is a project that we've been working on for a couple of years, and we had hoped to launch it a bit earlier, but again, just some technicality. There were some supply chain issues that are lingering, and we don't need to go into that. But anyway, we're sort of at that point now, but it's been a couple of years since we launched it. We put out the request for vendors because there aren't a lot of people that have this technology available. Gatekeeper just happened to have a technology that they thought we can adapt this because of what it was doing for school buses, and we immediately said, ‘Yeah, they're our company’. They're a Canadian company. Everybody's talking about supporting domestic business, so we were able to support a Canadian company. The nine-month is important because it allows us to capture all seasons. In Toronto, like many places in the Northeast U.S. from Philadelphia or Chicago, it gets cold, it gets snowy. And so we needed to be able to test the technology throughout the year or throughout the seasons. So we've started it in the summer. It will get us right through until the spring thaw in March, April, whatever. And then you're back into regular conditions, if you will.

BL: Is there a reason for that? Have you guys seen more cars blowing through the signs in the summer season as opposed to winter?

SG: No, it's not about that as much as it is making sure the technology is going to work. The cameras, for example, don't get covered with snow. Anyone who's got a car with a backup camera knows that the snow will splash up, and you try and back up and suddenly your little camera is blocked, so we wanted to make sure that A, that it was robust enough to work in the winter and that B, when the snow comes that the cameras are not getting covered in snow. Again, this is all part and parcel. That's why it's a pilot, making sure we can test all of these things out so that we know as we go forward with our business case that, ‘Hey, we've got something that works. It works all year round’. It's capturing license plate information. It's doing all of the things it's supposed to do, and that's really how we ended up at this nine-month pilot period. It also allows us to, nine months is sort of the minimum that we can test all of the seasons and then start really making that business case and moving forward aggressively and quickly as possible.

BL: Stuart, was there anything else on the project that I didn't address that you would like to cover?

SG: No, I don't think so. I think we've covered it. This issue for us has been one of those very tough to solve issues. We understand that people who are new to driving in Toronto might not have seen this kind of thing before. Suddenly, you're driving next to a train basically for some people, so there's an education component that will be part of this as we roll it out and then there's the penalty component. But really, again, it's like any law intended to deter as opposed to sort of capture reactively.

BL: Stuart Green, spokesperson with the Toronto Transit Commission. Stuart, thank you so much for joining me today on the Infrastructure Technology Podcast.

SG: My pleasure. Thanks for having me.

BL: And welcome back. You're hearing my voice once again. I know it must sound weird to you listeners or viewers out there, but that was my interview with TTC Spokesperson Stuart Green. Jess, give me your thoughts.

JP: I thought it was a really great interview, Brandon, as always. I think it really touched upon an issue that has been prevalent in areas with street cars. You mentioned the number was like, it was about over 140 people.

BL: Yeah, 141 Individuals who have been hit.

JP: Yeah. Over a 10-year span, that's no small number, so it's touching upon an issue that's prevalent in these areas. And then also it gets into privacy. I think it's interesting how putting the cameras on the streetcar is forward facing. I mean, it just takes a lot of planning to be able to consider people's privacy around the streetcar houses that it might pass and everything like that, and I know that's been a huge issue in general with traffic cameras and all of that. So I mean, just having it on a moving vehicle is super interesting, and I'm excited to see what happens with this pilot, what data they collect and how they see best actions moving forward.

BL: Yeah, so it's a nine-month pilot, and I found it interesting that Stuart said we wanted to go for all of the seasons and not particularly, and sort of both factors where it’s like yeah, weather is also a factor. We need to see how well they do in snow and things like that. But also our ridership patterns are different. People ride more in the summer versus the winter, so they want to get all the data that they possibly can. And then also this technology is basically the same technology that school buses are using, and I know neither of our industries do cover school buses in depth, but we see it all over neighborhoods. I'm sure you guys have seen cars in front of a school bus and they get impatient, and they just go right past the stop sign. Never understood that in my life. It's easier to follow that than it is to follow a traffic light, but okay, be my guest if you want to break the law, but that's part of the reason why they put these cameras on these streetcars, because passing through streetcars is very dangerous, and it could lead to pedestrians possibly getting hurt.

JP: And it's an especially interesting point you made too with the weather, because if there's snow or when there's snow, it's kind of probably pushing people out into the street more as they're waiting to get picked up. And so there are logistics.

BL: And Toronto starts early and ends their winter late. There's not a lot of summer months up there.

JP: Exactly, so it's definitely changing conditions and the pattern, the behaviors that people display when they're entering or exiting a vehicle, I mean exiting a streetcar, so I think it's a good point to have it go through all the different seasons, for sure.

BL: So before we go, Jess had mentioned this earlier, but this is our ITP Episode 50 spectacular, and we usually do our thanks on this show. Of course, as always, I want to thank EndeavorB2B for giving us this podcasting platform. I want to thank our great editor, Karina Mazhukina, for making us look wonderful, whether it's on video or on audio. But I also want to thank everybody involved, and it's going to take too long for me to name names, but everybody on camera, everybody off camera, everybody who has hosted this podcast or has been influential in marketing, whether they are still here at EndeavorB2B or they have moved on to greater pastors because we would not be here doing this 50 episodes in. We launched the first week of January 2025, and it is September 2026. Gavin, I'm going to make a reference for you here, as Green Day would say, “Wake me up when September ends”. Well, how about this? Wake me up when this podcast ends because I guarantee it's not ending. We are still going to be here for a lLong time, weekly, both audio and video podcasting platforms. I just want to take this opportunity to say thank you to everybody involved, and thank you to the listeners as well, because I have various podcasts that I've hosted in my career, and I've always said, I don't care if I get one listener or I get a million. If one person cares about my opinion and loves what I do, that's all that matters.

JP: I echo everything you said, Brandon. It's been amazing. Fifty episodes. I'm thankful to all of the guests that have joined us, all the topics we were able to discuss, everybody who's listened. We've even had recurring guests, and it's just been a pleasure to work with everybody in front of the camera and behind the camera, in front of the microphone, behind the microphone. So it's been awesome. And actually, fun fact is that our 50th episode recording coincides with that today is my one-year anniversary at the company.

BL: Congratulations to you. Again, it is Sept. 1 when we are recording this. You guys will hear this on Sept. 15. Jess, congratulations to you for making it one year at Endeavor. My four-year anniversary is coming up on Halloween actually and so it has been an amazing ride, and I'm so thankful to work with great co-workers like yourself, but enough of the sappy stuff. I'm sure our listeners are tired of listening to me ramble as Gavin would call me out on, so we're going to leave it there. For Brandon Lewis and Mass Transit magazine.

JP: And I'm Jessica Parks from Roads and Bridges. Thank you so much for listening.

BL: And goodbye.