Infrastructure Technology Podcast: The role GIS plays In public transit planning

Episode nine of Season 3 of the Infrastructure Technology Podcast explores how GIS technology, data analytics and emerging artificial intelligence (AI) tools are transforming public transit planning and accessibility. Featuring an interview with University of New Orleans graduate Jackie Strohmeyer, the episode highlights how data-driven methods are being used to improve mobility equity, optimize transit routes and support smarter infrastructure decisions. The discussion emphasizes the growing role of Geographic Information Systems in mapping transit access, analyzing community needs and guiding transit-oriented development. Strohmeyer shares how her background in sociology and housing equity translated into a career in transit planning, reinforcing that public transportation offers diverse career pathways beyond traditional engineering roles.

The episode also tackles the evolving role of AI in transit systems, noting its benefits in data analysis and operational efficiency while underscoring the continued need for human oversight—especially when addressing complex equity challenges like Title VI compliance. The hosts further examine how AI is being deployed in traffic management ahead of major events like the FIFA World Cup.

Episode length

36:20

About the guest

Jackie Strohmeyer holds a BA in Sociology and is an MPA candidate with a concentration in GIS at the University of New Orleans (UNO). During her time at the university, she worked as a graduate assistant and data analyst supporting planning and scheduling at the New Orleans Regional Transit Authority through the UNO Transportation Institute. Her work focuses on Geographic Information Systems-based accessibility analysis, spatial equity and the application of data-driven methods to transportation planning and policy evaluation.

Here is a transcript from the episode:

GJ: And welcome to the Infrastructure Technology Podcast. I'm Gavin Jenkins, head of content for Roads and Bridges. And with me, as always, we have Jessica Parks, staff writer for Roads and Bridges, and Brandon Lewis, associate editor of Mass Transit magazine. How are you two doing today?

BL: It's Tuesday, and it's another podcast day, episode nine of the season.

GJ: Alright, and Jess?

JP: I'm doing great.

GJ: Okay. Well, before we dive into the interview that we have, I need to read an audience email. It says, Dear Mr. Jenkins, I love the podcast. I love Brandon Lewis. He's so insightful, and I learned so much from his interviews, and I adore Jessica Parks. She's a gem, but you ramble, and you need to stop rambling, and you need to learn when to shut up. Sincerely, Karina Mazhukhina, content specialist for Roads and Bridges. So our editor, our producer of this podcast needs me to stop rambling specifically about Knight Rider and things like that, so we want to make her job a little bit easier, so I will try to control my tangents and my rambling, and we apologize to Karina. Brandon, tell us who we have on the show today.

BL: So today we have a student who just recently graduated from the University of New Orleans. Her name is Jackie Strohmeyer, and she holds a BA in Sociology, as well as an MPA candidate with a concentration in GIS. And like I said, she recently just graduated. She was working in the planning and scheduling department at the New Orleans Regional Transit Authority for the University of New Orleans Transportation Institute and her work focuses on GIA based accessibility analysis, equality and the application of data-driven methods to transportation planning and hours. And you'll see in this interview we talk about her journey and how she got into the public training industry, and it's very similar to the journey that some of our other interviews on this podcast this season have gone through, which is another lesson and an opportunity for me to say that it does not matter what industry you are in, public transit may have a spot for you.

GJ: Awesome. That is excellent. Well, we'll dive right in. Obviously I just want to say that I've made up that email that Karina would never, and your first dead giveaway that I made that up is that I was addressed as Mr. Jenkins because Karina would never do that. Alright, well without further ado, here's Brandon's interview. 

BL: Jackie Stromeyer from the University of New Orleans, welcome to the Infrastructure Technology Podcast.

JS: Hi, how's it going?

BL: It's going great. Thank you for joining me today. Of course, you are a student at the University of New Orleans. You are in the Transportation Institute Program. So can you tell us a little bit about the program?

JS: Sure, yeah. So the UNO Transportation Institute, we all call it UNTI, it's part of the College of Liberal Arts Education and Human Development at UNO. The UNTI kind of exists to provide research, data analysis, policy insight to regional agencies regarding transportation and public transit, and they also really exist as a service to students to create networking opportunities and professional development and workforce training for up and coming the younger generation that's interested in transportation. My position with UNTI is a great example of that because I’m employed by UNTI but embedded at the New Orleans Regional Transit Authority, so it's hands-on experience working in the transit field through UNTI, which I wouldn't have necessarily had that opportunity without their connections in this way.

BL: Before we get into what you were specifically doing at New Orleans RTA, let's talk about how you sort of got into the public transit industry.

JS: Yeah, okay. I definitely never saw myself working in transit. It wasn't even something I had thought about, but my background, I'm born and raised in New Orleans. I have a BA in sociology, so a lot of my focus when I started my career was interested in equity. After I finished my undergrad, I went and worked for the city of New Orleans in the short-term rental department, and I was focused on housing equity and housing affordability, but also the displacement of New Orleans residents. And then I kind of realized if I was going to move anywhere in that arena, there was kind of a cap on what I could do until I went back to school, so if I wanted any real impact, I knew I had to go back to finish my master's or to start my master's degree. And so then I went back to UNO. I got my undergrad at UNO and when I got my undergrad, I also was employed by UNTI and so when I went back for my master's to study public administration, I still was kind of thinking about housing affordability and housing equity until I got an email from UNTI because they're always trying to connect students with different programs, different professionals talks, research presentations, and they sent out an email to all the students just about how RTA’s seeking a graduate assistant. Let us know if you want to apply, and I found out actually at my interview for that position that there was a poster with details about what the job entailed. I never got it. It didn't reach me, so I went into the interview and before we even started, I was like, ‘I'm so sorry, but just before we get started, can you tell me what this job is I'm sitting here to interview for’? And they were kind of shocked. It went quite well, but it wasn't really until I got this job working at the RTA, I'm in the office of planning and scheduling as a data analyst and now doing GIS and spatial analysis. It wasn't until I started working here that I was even thinking about working in transit and once I started doing the work, I realized, ‘Okay, this is the same conversation about equity and accessibility. It's just a different arena’ and now we're talking about people's access to mobility around the city, and it's the same problems, just in a different field, but there's crossover because using data related to what the household income layout across New Orleans looks like, what their access is to the public transit that we have, how many of those houses of access to a car? That's the kind of research that I'm doing here, so once I was here, that's when I said, ‘Okay, I could actually see myself working in transportation because I've been doing it.

BL: Not only that, but there's also a huge crossover with the housing because of the transit-oriented development that's been going on. A lot of these agencies across the U.S. are partnering with all of these housing agencies to get housing that is close to transit to get that public access.

JS: Yeah, your timing on bringing that up couldn't be better. Later this afternoon, I'm meeting with a project manager where we're working with on the transit-oriented communities project, and I'm the GIS person, so we're going to sit down and look at some of the metrics that we're going to use to help map where the city should be looking at putting affordable housing based on where it's needed and what are suitable sites.

BL: So Jackie, could I say I love that story about you going into this interview with new organizations and basically saying, ‘Hey, what is this job about’? Because I think interviewing is a skill, right? These listeners on the ITP, you've heard my interview style. You guys know Gavin's interview style. You guys know Jessica's interview style. They're all different, and I think that your personality already on this podcast is going through my screen right now as I'm interviewing you, and it's truly a real skill, so I'm going to use one of those skills right now and ask you a question which is, I've never heard of GIS. What is it, and what is this technology that you're talking about?

JS: Sure. Yeah, GIS is geographic information systems, and it is the applied science of creating maps and spatial analysis within using MAP to look at data and placing it so that you can understand the spatial layout of data that you're looking at. Census data, street mapping, transportation relies on GIS. When you go into your app to figure out what's my route, what bus route am I going to take, you're using a GIS based program to get your routing information, so it's kind of the bread and butter of how people are seeing transportation most of the time.

BL: I got you. Yeah, I know that with the technology and the new development of these apps, a lot of the big focus has been on improving the rider experience, and one of those elements is can we track our rides, whether it's the on-share Uber, Lyft, paratransit as well. Can we track our rides? Can we see where our rides are going? Can we see driver information? Those types of things, which I don't know if you're aware of this. I know agencies and implementing them but not all agencies have them yet.

JS: Sure. Yeah. RTA implemented, I want to say at the same time that they rolled out the new bus network redesign, which was implemented in September 2022. We also created and rolled out an app called the LA Pass app, and that was the first time that New Orleans riders were able to see here's where the bus is, how long until it gets to me, which stops am I looking at. And obviously, it takes time to get all of these things exactly right and exactly perfect, but we hear back all the time from riders of the RTA that they really like the app, it works for them, and it goes both ways. Sometimes it glitches, sometimes it doesn't work, but getting the feedback is the only way that we can ever make it better because if we're in the office, we need to hear, ‘Oh, okay, it glitched out today’. It says the bus is coming, it shows you on the app, the bus is coming, and it never came. Well, how can we fix it if we don't know that's even happening?

BL: Are you working on the bus side, the rail side, mobility side, sort of everything?

JS: So I work in the office of planning and scheduling, and so the planners in our office are scheduling all of the fixed route stuff, so that's bus and rail, and for us, rail is the streetcars. We've got the oldest running streetcar in the U.S., the St. Charles line, but then we've also got newer lines, and then the ferry operations are kind of on a different side of things. That's maritime. We don't do that so much, and paratransit, we don't do so much. We're doing fixed rep design.

BL: I will tell you that I know in San Francisco, streetcars are a big thing, and I know in Philadelphia, trolleys are a big thing. I've always wanted to ride one of those. We had, and to be honest, I'm not so sure this is just a Cleveland thing, or if it was a worldwide thing, but we had something called Lolly The Trolley, which was something where you could take this trolley, but it wasn't like a part of the Cleveland RTA network, but it was a trolley that would just go, and you had a tour guide, and it would tell you all the fascinating aspects of Cleveland history. And during COVID, unfortunately, it shut down and never came back.

JS: Oh, that's a bummer. Honestly, I can't believe there has to. I would have to look into it, but there has to be someone who has said, ‘I'm going to be a tour guide, and I'm going to take my tour onto the St. Charles Streetcar, and I'm going to give a history’ because I mean, not only the history of the streetcar, you could do a whole tour of that, but you could go down St. Charles Avenue and do a tour of the houses that you're looking at and the development in the area. I would be surprised if there hasn't been someone who has done exactly what you're talking about. It's like a rich area for that sort of tour.

BL: For sure. Now, what is something that, because I assume you have only been in working with RTF for how many years now?

JS: Let's see, I started in October, 2024, so about a year and some change.

BL: So I started with Mass Transit and I had a little experience because I used to take public transit as a child, but I started with Mass Transit in October of 2022, so I've been here, we're recording this in March of 2026. I've been here give or take 3.5 years. I'm still learning about the transit industry, and there's so much involved, and when people hear about transit, they think of bus or rail. Some may think of ferry if you're used to it, but I think in general there's so much that goes into it. Atuff as we've already talked about: apps, fair collection, safety, there's so much more to just riding a bus. What is one thing that you've learned being in the industry that you didn't know about when you first came in?

JS: Oh my goodness. The whole thing has been a learning experience because like I said, I never thought I was going to be working in transportation. What's one thing though that stands out? I mean all of it. I knew nothing about public transit prior to this. I was a private vehicle owner and operator. I drive everywhere. When they asked me in my interview, ‘Do you take the bus’? I was like, ‘I take the ferry to get to my mom's house on the other side of the river in my car’, and they've taught me everything that I understand about public transit since I've been here. What I have been really interested about, because so much of my work focuses on equity, one of the things that I learned that has been quite an intense and interesting learning process is the concept that anytime there's anything more than minor schedule adjustments. If there's a major route adjustment, it triggers a Title VI Equity Analysis, so then in order to stay an adherence to the Title VI policy of the Civil Rights Act, they have to analyze whether or not the change in this bus route is going to negatively impact communities that require and rely on public transit. That's a really interesting field of work that I just never thought about. People say, ‘Oh, do this with the bus, just why can't you just…’ No, no, no, you can't just change the route and move it here. There's so many layers involved with whose needs are you meeting? How can you meet the most people's needs at once? One of the things they said when I first started here was in this office, in the office of planning and scheduling, what we do all day is the trolley problem. You pull the lever, and you give 30,000 people better access to work every morning, but one person is going to lose their trip to work if we do that decision, or you go the other direction and that one person keeps their trip to work in the morning, but 30,000 other people are going to be late every day.

BL: Oh, what a great quote for a future article on something. That's amazing.

JS: Truly, and I mean, I was like, ‘Oh gosh, way to stress me out. Now I have to be part of y'all's trolley problem. Great’.

BL: So before we started recording this podcast, you had mentioned to me your work with AI and the GIS system. Let’s revert back to that and what are your experiences, with AI, as sort of it's how we seemingly talk about now in the transportation field when it comes to technology that's ever evolving thing of AI, and I said going into the year, AI was a buzzword in 2025. Transit agencies started using it, but for my interviews that I've done, I'm gathering that it's not going to be, this sort of AI is going to be used in everything game changer type thing that's going to take away jobs in 2026, that this year is going to be the year where agencies sort of figure out, okay, this is exactly how we're going to use this technology to help us in our everyday operations.

JS: Sure. No, it's an interesting question because while there's areas where AI can be very useful, there's a limit to how useful it is. I mean, my background, I'm coming from an extremely human-centered approach with a background in sociology and my interest in equity. I think there's only so far we can go with AI if there's a massive natural disaster. There's incredible AI programming that they can use within GIS systems to track and just automatically figure out where in the streets are there things that need to be fixed so that we can keep so we could repave the right roads, move things out of the way and open up the path for people to get life going again. That's an awesome application of AI, but I also sit back and say at what cost? I don't know that it's necessarily worth all the externalities that come with using AI. I do think there's a purpose for it still, but it can't do everything. When I'm talking about the trolley problem, the AI every time is going to say, cool, we're going to make it better for 30,000 people, but we're humans and that one person who's going to miss their work, their trip to work in the morning also deserves to be able to access public transit, and it's only because we're humans receiving her phone call or getting her email that we're able to say, ‘Cool, let's figure out a way to also get you a trip to work’. It's hard to do, but AI is not the magic silver bullet to fixing that situation. I'll use AI when I'm building maps. If I'm doing an analysis in Arc GIS Pro, which is the software that I'm using basically all day when I'm working on my maps. I'm not a coder. I don't have a background in coding, and sometimes because it's running on SQL or Python or Arcade, you can change which coding language it's reading from you. I'll sometimes use Claude AI, which helps coders build code, so I'll tell it exactly what I want the output to be. I need my data to show up like this, and I need this aggregation, and I want it to appear this way, and this is my end goal, and it'll write me the code in two seconds, and I put it in, and half the time, I mean more than half the time, it works quite well. And then it also is teaching me enough so that I'm also picking up some light coding skills so that I can continue doing that work on my own.

BL: Jackie, I'm going to go somewhat on topic, but a little bit off topic, and I think the listener will appreciate what I'm about to say. So you're a college student. I graduated from college in May of 2021. During that time, there's no mention of anything called artificial intelligence, and so I am still sort of in my mind at least, I'm fresh out of school, though I've almost been graduated for five years. It's unbelievable. I could not imagine being in school today knowing that this AI technology is out there and thinking kids like me and you, we've learned technology so quickly. We're used to the smart boards, we're used to the iPads, and we're used to all this technology and knowing that it's out there and using it to have to complete assignments and things of that nature, and teachers I think are going to struggle to regulate that, and you talk about the coding and you using Claude to help code. I remember taking a class in high school that was simple web-based coding, and I've learned a lot about coding in that class, and I use that skill in my day-to-day job here at Mass Transit. It helps me manage some internal problems on the back end of our website. I can't imagine nowadays trying to be taught that, knowing that this computer can do it all for you. What's that balance as a current student? It's got to be wild. The transition within the last year.

JS: Yeah, and I finished my undergrad in May of 2022, and at the time, I don't think I recall hearing anything about AI. It was still a pipe dream, something that we were going to hear about one day. It was going to blow up the scene and take over all the jobs, but it was a very short period of time that I took off before going back to school, and now we have AI, and it's something that you hear about in every class, and the professors let you know you're supposed to do your own work, and I've had some interesting conversations with my advisor specifically about this because now that I'm working on my capstone project, we're talking about how trying to explain to students the goal of the learning. You either understand that goal or you don't. No one's going to convince you that it is more beneficial for you. Why waste your time? Why waste years? Why waste your money to not do the learning? And that just comes down to individuals. Either you are interested in getting the information and getting your money's worth out of going to receive your education, or you're not. I think for the people who are not, my fingers are crossed for them, but that carries over into other issues in your life if that's your mindset of how you're going to do things, and I think those of us who are interested in learning are interested in developing our skills. There's a stark contrast, and you can tell when you work with someone and every one of their emails is very clearly ChatGPT generated. It's obvious. And then it shapes how people view you and your work ethic, and I think it comes down to in schools really helping students understand what that impact is. You could use your AI for your paper, but if the after effect is now you're going to go to a place of work where no one trusts your judgment and no one's really interested in the value of anything you have to say because you write everything on ChatGPT, that will impact your trajectory in your career and that will impact your relationships to people, so it does come down to it's a judgment call. It's totally a why am I here and what do I want out of this and then moving forward after that.

BL: So last question for you. You mentioned you've only been in the public transit industry for maybe about a 1.5. What are some of the future goals of yours or looking forward in your career? Do you imagine yourself staying in public training? And it's okay if you don't, but what are you looking forward to here, as you finish up school here in the next couple of years and you move on to presumably bigger and better things?

JS: This is a great question that I'm very busy thinking about in my personal life right now because I'm due to graduate in May. I'm up for, I'm a candidate right now to get my MPA and I'm working on my capstone project, which I'm presenting at the end of April, and I just scheduled my presentation date, which is very exciting and I have no idea what's next because since I'm employed through UNTI, once I graduate in May, my employment is over, so I'll no longer be employed at the RTA, and it's been almost by that point, just shy of two years that I've been working here, and I like the people I work with, and I like the type of work we're doing, and I like the work ethic of so many of the people that I'm collaborating with and supporting with my work as an analyst, and I've been racking my brain trying to figure out what to do next because it really makes a lot of sense for me to figure out a way to apply the GIS skills that I've learned while I'm here, and since that's my concentration for my master's, that's going to be a huge part of my capstone project that I'm presenting, and if there was availability, I could see myself continuing working at the RTA as a GIS analyst. There's all sorts of independent contractors and consultants that get hired by all these agencies and then that opens up the world to where you're applying your skills, you get to have different teams that you're working with, different projects changing all the time. That would be a really fun way to move after this. I am not quite sure. I could see myself continuing to work in transit, and it just comes down to what is available once I'm done here.

BL: I got to say, I have thoroughly enjoyed, we've probably done four or five of these sort of college student interviews for this season, and I love hearing that from you guys because your enthusiasm in the industry is so great, but I think the biggest theme that I've taken away from it, and I know it working in the industry, but it's great to hear it confirmed, is that the people in public transit are just the best people.

JS: I love it. No, it has been so wonderful moving from working at the city in a huge department to moving to working for the RTA in a much smaller department. I have been so impressed with just the relationships. I am technically employed 20 hours a week. I'm probably here 40 hours a week, maybe. I'm doing schoolwork and working on my capstone for half of the time and then doing work for the RTA the other half, but it's genuinely just, I have my three screens set up at home. I'm still coming to the office because it's nice to be able to go hang out with my colleagues who are brilliant people. Also very interested in helping people and making a better place out of the world. That's what it is. Why would you go into the public sector and working in public transit if you weren't interested in helping to make the world better for other people as well?

BL: What a great quote. You know what? We're just going to end the podcast on that note because I can't think of anything better. Jackie Strohmeyer from the University of New Orleans. Jackie, thank you so much for joining us today in the Infrastructure Technology Podcast.

JS: Thank you, Brandon. This was fun.

GJ: And we are back. That was Brandon Lewis's interview with Jackie Strohmeyer from the University of New Orleans. Jessica, what did you think?

JP: So I think it was really interesting, especially after two weeks ago that Brandon spoke with Carita Ducre from APTA, where we kind of went into how there's so many careers within the public industry, public transit industry, and it was interesting to learn about how Jackie's background comes from the housing development and her background with GIS, which obviously that does lean into the transit industry, but I have a GIS background, so I like to hear it.

GJ: Brandon, you did an excellent job with the interview. It's just another example of this next generation coming up is ready to join the workforce. They know what they're doing with technology, and they also are excited about infrastructure and transit, and you really brought out how interesting she is. And also the interview really shined a light on just how knowledgeable and prepared they are to help the industry.

BL: Yeah, it's kind of amazing, right? Because I think Jackie is a great example of this. At the time we recorded this, she was still in the middle of her last semester there at the University of New Orleans, but these students now, and I think it's true for mostly all colleges all over the place, they're being prepared to go into the workforce, which I think is a good thing because by the time they leave college, they're ready, and they sound like professionals, and I think Jackie's going to go on obviously to do big things in the transit industry.

GJ: Yeah, absolutely. Alright, well before we go, we want to talk about something that's in the news, and I want to bring up something that we had recently on our website, roadsbridges.com. The headline is from the Dallas Morning News, and it was ‘North Texas cities are using AI to help with traffic ahead of the World Cup’. Brandon, do you know what cities in the United States are going to be hosting the World Cup this summer?

BL: I don't know every single one of them, but I know that there is obviously a lot. We've been covering it for Mass Transit. Off the top of my head. Atlanta, LA, Philadelphia, New Jersey.

GJ: Well, New Jersey's a state, not a city, but yes, so what you mean is the New York metropolitan area that encompasses New York City and northern New Jersey?

BL: Yeah

GJ: North Jersey as Soprano fans like to call it. Okay.

JP: Boston.

BL: Boston as well.

JP: Kansas City.

GJ: Yes, absolutely. Alright, so there's 11 total Atlanta, Boston, Dallas, Houston, which it is going to be hot in Houston in June, Kansas City, Los Angeles, Miami, the New York City/ North Jersey area, Philadelphia, San Francisco and Seattle. They have listed the San Francisco Bay area. I imagine some of it might be in Oakland or another area around there, but those are the cities, and I think that as we get closer to the World Cup, you're going to see a lot of stories about how AI is shaping the traffic flow in these areas, and the story that we published a little while ago, which is how in the Dallas area, they're using AI to get things ready and manage traffic, and I think that the World Cup will then become something that we're referencing in our industries for the next couple of years.

BL: It's going to be a massive story, especially for public transit as well because a lot of these cities are issuing car vans and mandatory public trains to travel, especially around those sites. The majority of these games are going to be taking place in NFL stadiums as well, which are already 60,000, 70,000 people, and it's going to be a massive event, and I'm really looking forward to seeing how both of our industries come together and if you will, represent the United States well.

GJ: Yeah, absolutely. And so I just want to also, I like to dip into another side of AI, so I'm going to read this quote from the article, and this comes from No Traffic AI, which tracks objects at intersections to help cities create timing plans for traffic systems and decrease congestion, which is something we like to talk about here on the show. And then the quote, ‘Using artificial intelligence, we can now start tracking if there are other people at the intersection, cars, trucks, buses and how many of them,’ said Tom Cooper, vice president of sales of No Traffic AI. It gives a lot more intelligence to the intersection, which is going to be really important for how many people are going to be in these cities, especially someplace like Houston or LA or New York, where there's already so much congestion. And then the next paragraph is just like Cooper said that the company ‘does not store personal or identifiable information such as facial recognition or license plates and focuses more on the operational improvement side of things’. I know about AI in our respective industries in transit and the roads and bridges, construction industry, AI has so much purpose and has so much value that it can really help with the building and the traffic flow, but I am such a skeptic that I'm immediately like, ‘Oh my God, they're going to be taking our faces, they're going to be tracking us’, and it is not a coincidence that the journalist writing this, the next paragraph, because as I'm reading that quote, the first time I read it a couple of weeks ago, the first thing that's popped into my mind is they're going to be taking my face, and in the next paragraph, Cooper said, ‘We're not taking your face’.

BL: Well, I don't know if they can, you're inside the vehicle.

JP: But they're gathering pedestrians, too. So yeah, so that was an interesting thing I read about, well, I wrote about, was in Hawaii. Hawaii DOT launched that dashcam program and when I spoke with the CEO of the dashcam company, he had mentioned that they do not take footage from the beginning and end of the trip because they didn't want to get footage of people leaving their driveways or enter their driveways and know where they're traveling, so I thought that was really interesting.

GJ: Right. And a couple years ago, remember maybe it was just last year when I did that interview with the guy who is from the app where if you go onto a wrong way street, you get notified on your phone. I mean, he was very adamant. We're not tracking people, and I believe all these people, it's just that you can though. No, you're right. You can find out where people live and what time they leave their house every day. You can track them. And so while there is just so much value to traffic flow, reducing congestion and making sure that we are designing bridges and roads and maintaining them to the best of our ability because of AI, it's a pandora's box because there's so many downsides or possible downsides.

JP: It reminds me of the episode of Succession where Tom was going to use the quote, ‘We're listening’ and then he found out the app actually was listening, so they had to switch it to we hear for you’.

GJ: We hear for you. Oh Brandon, the vague look on your face right now. You've never seen Succession? 

BL: Completely over my head.

GJ: Right over your head. You don't know who Tom Wambsgans is. It's so sad. He's such a great character. Alright, well that is all that we have for today's episode of the Infrastructure Technology Podcast. We'd like to thank Endeavor B2B, our parent company that provides us this platform, so we can have the podcast. We'd also like to thank Jackie Strohmeyer from the University of New Orleans for joining us and joining Brandon, giving us a great interview, and we'd like to thank you, the listener. If you want to email us and complain about my rambling like Karina did, you can email us at [email protected]. I also like to thank Karina Mazhukhina, our producer and editor of this podcast. For Brandon Lewis and Jessica Parks, I'm Gavin Jenkins. We'll see you next time. Goodbye.