Infrastructure Technology Podcast: Albuquerque's smart bus shelters

In this episode of the Infrastructure Technology Podcast, the team dives into the city of Albuquerque’s new smart bus shelters—a project aimed at making transit safer, cleaner and more efficient for riders. Brandon Lewis interviews Bobby Sisneros, the deputy director of Albuquerque’s Transit Department, who explains how these shelters integrate technology and thoughtful design to improve the rider experience. After the interview, Gavin, Brandon and Jessica share their takeaways before segueing into a lighthearted conversation about TV shows and movies. From Breaking Bad to The Sopranos to The Godfather, the team debates the cultural “must-sees” that Brandon has never watched.

Episode length: 58:21

About the author

Bobby Sisneros is a seasoned public sector executive with nearly two decades of leadership experience across municipal government operations in the city of Albuquerque, N.M. Currently serving as deputy director of the city’s Transit Department, he oversees security, training, marketing, planning and information technology divisions, where he drives initiatives to improve rider safety, expand service efficiency and strengthen public engagement.

Here is a transcript from the episode:

GJ: And welcome to the Infrastructure Technology Podcast. I'm Gavin Jenkins, and with me as always, we have Brandon Lewis.

BL: Good morning everybody.

GJ: And Jessica Parks.

JP: Good morning.

GJ: Alright, we are from Roads and Bridges and Mass Transit magazine, and we are the ITP team. We come to you every Tuesday, talking about technology in the infrastructure and transit space and up on our show today, we have an interview with, was it the city of Albuquerque's smart bus shelters?

BL: Correct. It is the city of Albuquerque, New Mexico, and we have Bobby Sisneros, who is serving as the deputy director of the city's transit department.

GJ: Okay. Alright. Looking forward to that. Albuquerque is a fascinating city that is more than just where Breaking Bad was filmed. It has a great infrastructure, and it's a lovely city, so we'll dive into that. But first, how are you two doing?

BL: It's November, but it is a Tuesday. It's a podcast day, I should say it's November at the time of this recording, and it's a Tuesday. It's podcast day. The holidays are getting near, which warms my heart. It means that the end of the year is near, and yeah, we're hanging in there right now.

GJ: What about you, Jessica?

JP: I'm doing pretty good. We are recording this after Halloween weekend. I had a fun Halloween. I was cat woman one night and a leopard the other night, so I was, I guess a cat themed Halloween, so it was fun.

GJ: When you say you were a leopard, were you just basically dressed like a mummy?

JP: No, a leopard.

GJ: Leopard. So not a leopard, like your fingers are falling off? 

JP: No, like the animal. 

GJ: Like the animal. Okay. It would've been so much scarier if you were on Leo.

JP: It would've been scary. I have never prepared for Halloween, maybe besides what I was trick or treating as a kid, so all my outfits have just been stuff from my closet, so I had some leopard clothes, so that's what worked out.

GJ: You should have had some leopard clothes hanging around. The best costume I ever had for Halloween was I was living in Shezhen China in 2008, and I went to a salon there. I got my hair cut to make it look like an old man's receiving hairline, and I dyed my hair white and then I had a suit, and I went as John McCain, and I ended up going to two different bars that night that had costume contests, and I won both.

JP: That's awesome.

GJ: And won actually both of them. At both of them, I gave political speeches, like fake political speeches.

JP: That's amazing.

GJ: Yeah, that was a lot of fun. But since then I've never been able to match that in some years. I just give up. I have a gorilla costume that I bought for $100 dollars from Spirit a couple of years ago, and I just wear that every year now.

JP: I tried to go to Spirit on Saturday.

GJ: On Halloween?

JP: The day after Halloween, which was even worse, and they didn't have anything left, so I just went with what I had.

GJ: No, you got to go to those Spirits the second they pop up.

JP: I know.

GJ: But it can get expensive in there.

JP: It definitely can. It definitely can.

GJ: Spirit is not a sponsor of the show, so we can criticize their prices, but I mean they do have a great selection. Okay, so before we dive into this Albuquerque smart bus shelters conversation, we want to have a little fun. We want to talk about something. And so what I'm going to do is I'm going to give you guys, I'm going to read off some news stories, and you have to give me the word. We're stealing from Pardon the Interruption again. We're playing, What's the Word? Are you two ready to play What's the Word?

BL: Yes.

JP: Yes.

GJ: Alright, a researcher at Missouri S&T developed a robotic inspection system called BIRDS for bridge monitoring, which won the American Society of Civil Engineer 2025 Charles Panow Award for Innovation. Now, this advances automation in bridge inspection. This is something our Roads and Bridges readers care a lot about. It moves beyond the manual visual inspections of robotic platforms. It improves safety and potential reducing of inspection time and cost. Brandon, what is your word for the robotic inspection system?

BL: I think my word for this is shortly becoming maybe my favorite word in the entire English language, which is efficiency and don't tell me why I love that word so much. I think it's a great word, but I think anytime that we're using technology in a smart and good way to make something safer and to speed up the time it takes to do that is the definition of efficiency.

GJ: Jessica what say you?

JP: I would say my word for this would just be, it's very futuristic. It's looking forward at how technology is going to make our jobs easier. Kind of building off what Brandon said. I am sure it'll promote safety. I'm sure expecting a bridge manually is not necessarily, if you have to probably get to high heights and everything. So being able to automate this and have it be a technology driven process I think is very futuristic, and I guess another backup word is just more safe.

GJ: More safe. Yeah, some people would say safer, but more safe. Up there in Massachusetts you say more safe.

JP: More safe. 

GJ: More safe. Alright. Okay. I'm surprised you said efficiency and not just efficient.

BL: Well, I guess it technically.

GJ: I'm just going to mock both of you for your words.

BL: It’s my Cleveland, Ohio accent.

GJ: Yeah. Okay. Alright. That's good. I think you guys nailed that one. Let's go to the next one. Alright, the Rhode Island Department of Transportation has a monitoring system at the Washington Bridge on October 9th. I don't know how they pronounce it, RDOT or RIDOT reported that a newly installed structural health monitoring system on the Washington Bridge found no issues in its first weeks of data collection. This shows real-time deployment of sensor monitoring tech for bridges in the U.S. It also signals how infrastructure is becoming smart. We'll start with you Jessica. What is your word for this technology?

JP: I would say accurate. I think it's really interesting that its found no issues because I know with AI and the tech world that we're evolving into, you do have to double check everything, and I'm sure that everybody's still going to be doing that moving forward, but usually there is just something in there. It kind of makes the tech more humanistic when they make a mistake. We all make mistakes once in a while, but it's evolving to the point where they're not, you can almost really rely on this trusted data. I think that's really interesting.

GJ: Brandon, what do you think?

BL: I'm going to steal the word that you used Gavin to sort of set this question up and that word to me is smart. I mean that's what it comes down to me. This is literally smart technology that is being used on this bridge, and Jessica mentioned in the first conversation, futuristic smart. I think those are the buzzwords that we use now when it comes to this technology, but that's basically what this is, and it's setting up the future in Rhode Island, and I would think potentially it could occur in other states down the road, as long as this technology is as accurate as it's been in Rhode Island.

GJ: Some might say it's more smart. Okay. Alright. It's definitely smart, and it's definitely, hopefully is accurate and that data collection is really crucial as well. Alright, next one. The growth of digital twins and sensor internet of things in bridge construction market. A market report on October 27th forecasted that the bridge construction market is going to grow from $1.2 trillion in 2024 to 1.87 trillion by 2032, driven in large part by digital twin tech, internet of things, integration, sustainable materials and modular construction, so this indicates the macro trend in the construction of roads and bridges, digital models, iot monitoring, sustainable materials, not just a single project but a market shift. Brandon, what is the word for this market shift?

BL: The word for me is needed. I think that this is the evolution of roads and bridges construction, and I think moving forward, we talk about all the time in this podcast how these companies are using technology to make the roads and bridges and even the transportation industry not only safer and smarter, but these are going to be built to last longer and have better infrastructure because of this technology, so to me, the word is needed.

GJ: Needed. Jessica, what say you?

JP: Mine is streamlined.

GJ: Streamlined. Great word. 

JP: Yes. I think that being able to just be able to get more done with the technology that's at our hands, it allows construction agencies to be able to work on a higher volume of projects because they're able to knock out those tedious parts that are able to be handled by AI and tech programs and all of that, so I think it allows them to really be able to work on more projects, do the parts that humans are needed for and therefore streamline the process.

GJ: Excellent. Speaking of humans, the workforce shift automation in bridge building amid civil engineering shortage, an article from interesting engineering on October 7th, highlights how the bridge building sector in the U.S. is turning to automation, robotics and digital tools to compensate as civil engineers retire and labor shortages grow, and this is something Roads and Bridges, we've been covering this for years now, at least in the four years since I've been here. The labor shortage has been something that we talk about on a regular basis. This adds a human resources angle, a tech angle to this phenomenon, and not just the hardware of bridges, but who builds them is changing thanks to tech. What say you, Jessica?

JP: This one, I would say I need a second to think about that one. Can you go first, Brandon?

GJ: Oh no. Oh my.

BL: So I'm going to take a little bit of a negative term. Most of these stories have been mostly positive in the innovation and technology, but my word here is going to be worrisome. 

GJ: Worrisome. 

BL: The reason why I say that is because as much as we talk about how great the technology is, and again, I don't doubt, I think technology and the speed and what they're using to build these bridges to make them lives longer is great, but I am worried, and we've talked about this a ton on the podcast about that it is inevitable that robotics and other technology are going to take people's jobs, and I think that it is the way out for these companies to say, ‘Oh, there's a labor shortage. Well, you know where there’s not going to be a labor shortage? Technology. We will just use that’. And to me there still has to be some sort of always there being a human element because we can never fully and 100% trust the technology.

GJ: Absolutely not. Well put. Well said. Now Jessica, you passed. You said I need more time. 

JP: No, I got it. 

GJ: The correct terminology is passed. Alright, so you passed earlier. Do you have a word for this?

JP: Okay, so I think similarity. I want to explain it, so the reason I was trying to think of a better word, but I think that as the human element is taken out of this process and it's kind of given to tech, I do think we might see less differences in the designs that our bridges are made of, and yeah, I think creativity will definitely go down, and I think that that is an important element that humans bring in is that we're able to have different ideas and not just look at what's happened before us and build a new design off of that, I guess similarity homogenity.

BL: We’ll just break it out of the vocabulary, okay.

GJ: Alright. Okay. What's the Word? Which was a lot of fun for me because I didn't have to come up with words, and I got to just tease my co-host a little bit, and so up next we have Brandon's interview and let's get to that right now.

BL: And Bobby, welcome to the Infrastructure Technology Podcast.

BS: Thank you for having me, Brandon. I appreciate it.

BL: Today, we are going to be talking about the city of Albuquerque and smart shelters, and I know when I say the word smart shelters, our listeners maybe on the Mass Transit side and maybe even on the Roads and Bridges side as well, they may be thinking: Smart shelters, aren't they just bus shelters? So tell us the difference between what these smart shelters are compared to a regular bus shelter.

BS: Yes, that's a great question, Brandon. Thank you for asking that question. We decided to use the phrase smart shelter because the design of these shelters are just that they're environmentally designed so that it's safer for the public, it's safer for our public safety officials as they drive by 'em. They can look into 'em and see what's going on instead of having to have their view obstructed. They're smart because they use technology to let passengers know when their next bus is arriving. They're smart because we use a trash can design that helps prevent people from actually digging into the trash and throwing it all on the ground, so they're smart in those three areas, and that's why we coined the phrase smart shelters.

BL: When it comes to the technology that passengers can use to tell when their next bus is arriving, can you explain a little bit more about what that technology actually is?

BS: Yeah, so it's a screen very similar to an iPad. We've tested it in one of our busiest locations along Central Avenue, which goes through the heart of Albuquerque. It's on Route 66, and we use this design, this tablet design, and using GPS that's connected to our bus system and using Swiftly, it lets you know when your bus is coming, when your next bus is on its way and it also lets you know when the next two buses behind it or on their way in case you don't want to catch that particular one. There's even a button you can push, so that you can audibly hear when your next bus is coming.

BL: Okay. Where is that button located in relevance to In the actual shelter itself?

BS: Yeah, it's actually, the button is actually on the screen itself, so if you can envision an iPad and at the bottom of the iPad, there’s a button.

BL: Okay, I gotcha.

BS: All that equipment is on the shelter itself, which is the center pole.

BL: Now, I know that these shelters at first debuted, at least in your guys' area, in September. What was the process though that you guys took from start to end of getting these shelters implemented?

BS: Yeah, so we had a location also on Central Avenue on the corner of Central Avenue on Coors Boulevard where there was a lot of people just, they were abusing the current shelter, and they were just hanging out. They weren't using the shelter for what it was intended for, so I went to our resident welder by the name of Bill, and I came to him, and I told him what I was after, what I was looking for. I wanted a shelter that discouraged people from hanging out but still provided enough shade, a place to sit and a place for folks in wheelchairs to get out of the elements while they're waiting for the bus because that's what these shelters are designed for our passengers. So our welder, an amazing welder, he’s got more than 20 years experience. He took the challenge up. He went to town, and he designed our prototype shelter, and he uses old material from other shelters that have been hit by cars and things of that nature, and he put it together. We ran it through engineering to get it certified to make sure it was sound structurally and then we installed it at that same location. We removed the old shelter that was there, installed Bill's new design, which we were calling at the time, a thin line design. We had a hard time coming up with the proper name for it, and it worked amazing, Brandon. I mean, it went from 30 to 40 people just hanging out to just those passengers that use the stop for the bus, taking advantage of that new design, and because of that, we decided to launch into this great new program with the smart shelters.

BL: Did you say 30 to 40 people within this shelter?

BS: Yeah, they were hanging out inside the shelter and around the shelter itself. They would just stay there for no good reason.

BL: Now, how big are these shoulders compared to say your typical normal size bus shelter?

BS: Well, so it's probably got a footprint of about, I don't have the exact dimensions in front of me or do I? Yeah, so the exact dimensions here are 22 feet wide by 10 feet deep and then they stand 37 and a half feet tall.

BL: Now, from the time that you guys discovered that this shelter may be something that we could explore, what year was that? Obviously as I mentioned, these shelters launched in September, 2025, but when did you guys start really building the first prototype?

BS: So we started that first prototype last year and probably about April or March.

BL: Okay, so it took about 18 months total, you would say?

BS: Exactly. Yeah, I think the biggest hangup was running it through the engineering folks to get that stamp of approval, that it was a sound structure. We obviously didn't want to put something out there that wasn't going to stand up to the wind and the elements and things of that nature. That took us probably about six months to get that approval, so we installed that shelter on the corner of Central Avenue and Coors Boulevard roughly about October, November of 2024, and it was instantaneous that we saw the immediate change. So by December we were placing our order for these new shelters and they started rolling in. We have two of them out on the streets right now. We use this prototypes just to make sure that design, because the design that we ordered is a little bit different than the one build design concepts still the same, but it's a little bit different.

BL: In what way?

BS: So the build designed with lean tubes. Are you familiar with what a lean tube is? It's a post with a little slant, so you can just lean against it, and his design had two lean tubes in it. The design we went with had actual seats, so you can actually sit down instead of leaning in it. And then his lean TOS had a space in between large enough for a wheelchair to enter and exit, and the new design is large enough so that the wheelchair can tuck under as well to be next to the folks that are sitting down as well.

BL: Have you gotten any feedback or anything like that from riders or customers about the shelters?

BS: Oh, absolutely. We've heard from our public service partners that absolutely love the design. We've heard from the public, and it's a mixed bag at the moment, right? Central Avenue in Albuquerque accounts for nearly 40% of our ridership, so it's our busiest corridor, so we've got a lot of folks that equate that large amount of ridership with a lot of people at a shelter, so because of that, they don't understand why we reduced the footprint of the shelter. We have to remind them that folks that ride the bus on a regular basis understand that you don't need to be at a shelter for more than four or five minutes at a time, so there's really no need for a large shelter with a lot of sitting area because we've got high frequency on that route. You're not going to be waiting very long. A bus is going to come, and plus, if I ride the bus all the time day in, day out, I know my bus is going to be there at a certain time. I don't need to arrive any sooner than that, so it's a mixed bag. A lot of the passengers love the new look, and we have some passengers that are still getting used to it.

BL: No, you're right. One of the things that I've learned doing this podcast is that bus routes and these bus drivers, and I'm sure it's the same thing for your guys in your city, is these routes are very timed, and I know that when they train the bus drivers, Gavin Jenkins, my co-host, the senior managing editor at Roads and Bridges, said that he knew a bus driver in his area where they are timed, and they have to be exactly on time. They can't be too early, too late, so that's very interesting from my perspective, is the design of these to say, hey, you're not going to be at a shelter for maximum like seven, eight minutes is typically when I would guess every bus would come, right?

BS: Yeah, that's absolutely right, and I want to point something out. I haven't touched on it yet, but the overarching goal for our department, it's in our mission statement, is to provide safe, clean and reliable service. This shelter touches on two of those three goals. We want it to be safe, and we want it to be clean because it is reduced in size. It's much easier for our bus stop maintenance crews to clean it. There's less surface area for individuals to graffiti on, and it's easier for us to paint because it's less surface area, so it makes it cleaner, it makes it safer because it discourages folks from just hanging out, and that's what we're trying to get away from because the everyday bus rider might not feel safe if there's sturdy or 40 people just hanging out at that bus stop, so this design really encourages two of our three goals, which is safety and cleanliness.

BL: I want to go back real quick and talk about the design because I want to talk a little bit about Tolar Manufacturing. They have done a ton of bus shelter manufacturing for many transit agencies. We've covered a lot of them on our website,masstransitmag.com. Can you talk a little bit about the relationship and working with them to build these shelters?

BS: Yeah. So first and foremost, I agree. They're a great manufacturer. They're awesome. We are the first agency in the state of New Mexico to use this particular design. However, we're not the first to use this design in the nation. They do have 'em in several other states, Texas, South Carolina, Tennessee and Florida, so we're happy to join the ranks of these other states to take advantage of this beautiful clean design. We love that it's got solar lighting included in it that also helps with the security, and it helps to just light the whole area up, so we're huge fans of that, and we liked that these, I'm sorry, I kind of lost my train of thought there, and we liked that there's capacity to add solar panels down the road if we need to, so we're really pleased with the work we're doing with Tolar.

BL: That was going to be my next question was is there any room for even potential improvements to the design or potential additions to the shelter itself if necessary?

BS: Oh yeah, definitely. So a few things. We're not going to add the smart tablet to every stop. We're going to add that to our busiest stops to begin with, which is approximately 34, but we can always add that later, and then if we see that a stop does start to take on more folks than what this shelter can handle, we can always add a second one to it, so that we can add more shade and more capacity.

BL: Gotcha. Now, is that just a cost decision of, I assume it would be more expensive to add the technology like tablet on there just because obviously the screen and all that is probably expensive?

BS: Well, yeah, definitely. ABQ Ride is part of the city of Albuquerque. A lot of transit agencies are that, their own agency, their own authority. We are part of the city municipal government, so we have to be good stewards. I mean, we're charged with being good stewards with the tax dollar, so it doesn't make sense to have to spend the kind of money on this technology at a stop if only one or two people take advantage of it every three to four hours. However, if we have a stop where we have 10, 15 people taking advantage of it every 30 minutes, then we want to have that kind of technology in those kind of locations, but patterns change. We add housing up and down the corridor, more restaurants open, more people might start to take advantage, so these shelters allow us that ability to add to 'em if we need to.

BL: I'm just spitballing here a little bit, but I wonder in the future, because this idea of this tablet like displaying bus routes and when the next bus is going to come has sort of given a light bulb moment for me where it's like, I wonder there will one day be a similar concept, but instead of it just displaying which next bus route is going to come and such, you could literally search, and there could be a keyboard. It'd be an actual path where you could search even routes down the road, hours away, days away, and just search potential routes.

BS: So we do have that technology at ABQ Ride available. Other cities also take advantage of these apps. It's called the Transit app. So if you've had that technology in your pocket in your phone, we highly encourage all of our passengers. I encourage all your listeners to download that Transit app. I have used that app myself, and Albuquerque and Kansas City and Miami. When I go visiting family and friends and go to conferences, the first thing I do is pull out my phone and open that transit app, so I can take advantage of the public transportation in that area, sp we do have that technology available and it's personal, and what I like about it being personal is, if you're at home, Brandon, you can sit on your couch in your living room and search for your bus and see when it's coming, so that you don't have to come to our shelter to find out when your bus is coming, so you can take advantage of all your home time before you leave by using that app.

BL: Right, and obviously this technology at the shelter is going to be a huge game changer for those that are there. Do you guys have any plans? I know you talked about that there are plans to add more shelters. Is there a completion date that you have set up potentially for all the shelters, at least in the area being completed?

BS: Yeah, we're aiming for the middle of next year. We have begun laying down the concrete foundations by the end of this year. We should have 30 to 40 done by the end of this calendar year, and by the middle of next year, we should have all 55. It's approximately 55 up and down the central corridor. The reason we decided to go, we're only placing these shelters along our Central Avenue corridor, and the reason we decided to do that, I mentioned earlier as it's our busiest corridor in the city, plus it's Central Avenue, it's Route 66, we're getting ready to celebrate the 100-year centennial of Route 66. We thought it'd be really nice if we could uniform our shelters, and it's got a brand new look, and it just, this design really screens back to that time period, a simpler time, so we're really excited to get these up in time for that 100 year anniversary of Route 66.

BL: It's weird, right? I don't think many people, if they're not a public transit user every day, specifically with buses, they don't know how important really bus shelters are until you're stuck in the elements, and you need a shelter, and you don't have one.

BS: That's right. That's absolutely right. These shelters, it's a luxury that we get to provide for our passengers before they even step onto our bus. It's our way of tying them. Thank you for using our service. Let me get you out of the elements. Let me protect you from that wind, rain or that heat out of New Mexico. We get a brutal heat from the sun, so we're excited that we're able to introduce these new designs up and down Central Avenue. We're excited that they tick off two of our three goals in our mission statement. We're excited that our public safety partners are excited for them, and we're excited that the public, although not all of them, but we're excited that the public is getting on board with us and liking them as well.

BL: Bobby Sisneros is a seasoned public sector executive with nearly two decades of leadership experience, municipal government operations in the city of Albuquerque. Bobby, thank you so much for joining me today on the Infrastructure Technology Podcast.

BS: Thank you, sir.

GJ: That was Brandon Lewis's interview with Bobby Sisneros from the city of Albuquerque. Brandon, what were your biggest takeaways from talking to him?

BL: So my biggest takeaways here is if you guys think about bus shelters, we all know what a bus shelter looks like, but when you first hear the word bus shelter, you're thinking, ‘Okay, how could a bus shelter possibly be smart? What is smart about a bus shelter?’ And what it really is, is the display of real-time information on the screens inside the bus shelter, so they're not necessarily in the bus station or the train station itself, but it's actually at the shelter, and these shelters are a little bit larger than a typical bus shelter, and it really does show the importance of why bus shelters are needed. I know there's been somewhat of a little bit of a stigma, maybe around somebody that doesn't use public transit as to like, ‘Why is this little box in the middle of the sidewalk with only one bench in it? Is it really useful?’ And it is, and I think that it's going to encourage more people to take transit, and Tolar Manufacturing Company, the company that designs these bus shelters, have been working with transit agencies, not just the city of Albuquerque, but transit agencies all over the U.S. to design these bus shelters, and I anticipate that in the years to come, they're going to be ending up in Massachusetts. They're going to end up in Pittsburgh and really all over the country.

GJ: What did you think, Jessica?

JP: I thought it was an interesting way to try to spur ridership on the bus network. I think just having it broadcasted that when the next bus is going to show up, I think it kind of makes people be like, ‘Oh, you know what? Why wouldn't I just hop on that if it's a minute away. I have a 20 minute walk. Why wouldn't I just hop on?’ So I think it just makes the information more available to just show people the convenience of taking a bus.

GJ: Yeah, absolutely. Have you ever been to Albuquerque, Jessica?

JP: Nope. I've never been to New Mexico. I would love to go. I did love Breaking Bad, too. So a good trip.

BL: Another show that I have never seen. 

GJ: Are you kidding me? 

BL: I'm not kidding.

GJ: Wait, so you said you never saw The Wire last week, right?

BL: Correct. 

GJ: And you've never seen Breaking Bad either?

BL: I have never seen Breaking Bad.

GJ: I think those are the two best shows ever made.

BL: I think the only HBO show I have ever seen have been documentaries. I don't think I've ever watched an HBO exclusive or even a Netflix exclusive show.

GJ: Well, hold on. First of all, Breaking Bad was on a MC. Let's speak their name properly.

BL: Okay, I did not know that.

GJ: Second of all, its home is now essentially Netflix. You can watch Breaking Bad on Netflix, but second of all, so you're telling me you've never seen The Sopranos? 

BL: I have not.

JP:  I'm actually watching The Sopranos right now.

GJ: For the first time?

JP: For the first time.

GJ: How far are you?

JP: Season two. Halfway through season two.

GJ: Oh, wow. Oh wow. Yeah. Okay.

JP: I'm so excited. I'm enjoying it. It's really good. 

GJ: We really can't talk too much about The Sopranos because of how vulgar it is, but Brandon, are you just anti good art?

BL: I'm not anti good art. I don't know. I got to find the time, I guess, to watch these shows that I never really had an interest in before. I don't know how to explain it really. COVID shifted my whole TV watching process. I really didn't really watch any shows or anything like that before COVID, so all these new shows, whether it's a sitcom or comedy or whatever, I've really just started watching post pandemic, so there's a lot of things that I have not watched in my young life.

GJ: Okay, so I'm just going to ask, I'm going to throw out some names of TV shows. You throw it back at me. Tell me if you've seen them. Okay, so you haven't seen the four shows that I would say are the best TV shows, drama, best dramas of all time in no particular order: Sopranos, The Wire, Breaking Bad and Mad Men. And you've never seen any of those?

BL: Never seen any of them. I don't think I've ever watched a drama show.

GJ: Oh wow. Okay. Well, you're an adult, so you should try these out. Those are the four best shows in the history of television, and honestly, what I do is if I've seen all of them more than once, and every time I rewatch one, I'm like, that's clearly the best one. That's clearly the best one. I really do think, I think The Wire is the best personally, The Wire, the season four of The Wire with the kids in the school is just unmatched. It's so devastating. There's parts of it that are so funny, but the drama's so real. It's untouchable in my opinion.

BL: There's too much wrestling on to watch all of these dramas though, Gavin. That is my drama.

JP: Mad Man's my favorite.

GJ: Mad Man’s your favorite?

JP: Yeah.

GJ: You're a big fan of John Draper?

JP: Yeah, I love John Draper. I loved John Slattery too.

GJ: Love him, which is Raj. Raj has some of the best lines. He's so funny, but his lines, I can't say on this podcast. Some of them are just so good though, so, okay, Brandon, let's switch to comedies for a second. So you've never seen, okay, I have three comedies that I think are the best. Three comedies of all time, and these I am going to put in order: Seinfeld. Curb Your Enthusiasm. Veep.

BL: None of those.

GJ: You've never seen Seinfeld? 

BL: I have seen it on tv. I've never watched a full episode.

GJ: You've never watched a full episode of Seinfeld? You've never watched a full episode of Seinfeld?

JP: You have to avoid the TV to not watch Seinfeld. 

BL: I feel like it just is on half the time, and if it’s on, I always choose something else.

GJ: I think I make a Seinfeld reference every day, and if you talk to me long enough, I'm going to make a Seinfeld reference. I was in a meeting yesterday with our boss Michelle, and I made a Seinfeld reference, like a very obscure joke and thankfully she got it, so you've never watched a full, you started watching an episode, and you just didn't like it?

BL: I may have seen it during a commercial of a football game or something, and I've popped it on for a couple minutes, but I've never seen a full episode.

GJ: Brandon! And you’ve never seen Curb? Curb is my favorite ever. Whenever I was on the way to the Bentley conference, the Delta had Curb to watch on the flight, and I was able to watch the seventh season of Curb, which is the Seinfeld reunion season, which is so funny. The Midriff episode is so good, where he has the assistant who keeps wearing midriffs. It’s just so funny. Brandon, you're missing out, man. You're missing. And then I think Veep is a very close third to all those. I think Veep, have you ever seen Veep, Jessica?

JP: Yes. I love Veep, too. Veep is one of my favorite shows, but they move fast. 

GJ: Their dialogue is so fast on that show. I've had to watch Veep a couple different times through to catch just how fast they're putting each other down. It's really good. Okay, incredible. Brandon, you have homework. I would say that you should start with Seinfeld and The Sopranos and just work your way through there, but let's talk about bridges, which come into play at the end of season. One of The Sopranos. A bridge is very crucial when the dad from Home Alone jumps off the bridge. Yes, spoiler alert, the dad from Home Alone is a crooked FBI agent.

BL: Oh my God, that's funny. 

GJ: Yes. Do you watch movies? Are you into movies?

BL: I mean mostly Christmas movies. Home Alone, Home Alone 2 are probably my two favorite movies, but no.

GJ: Have you ever seen Goodfellas?

BL: No, I have not.

GJ: God, have you seen The Godfather?

BL: No, I have not. 

GJ: What? Brandon, you're an American. You are an American man. What are you doing? You're 25? 

BL: Yeah. No, 27. 

GJ: You're 27. You're 27, and you've never seen The Godfather? 

BL: No, I have not. 

GJ: The Godfather. Who are the people in your life? Do you not? Do you not have a family member or friend who's like talking to you about these things?

BL: They tell me to watch them, and I just don't watch.

GJ: You just don’t?

JP: Have you seen Rocky?

BL: No, I have not.

GJ: What do you mean you've never seen Rocky? 

BL: I've never seen Rocky. I know the reference, but I've never seen the movie. 

GJ: But Rocky III literally has Hulk Hogan in it.

BL: But I've never seen it.

GJ: What movies? Wait, what? Have you ever seen Pulp Fiction?

BL: No.

GJ: Why? We're listing some of the best movies that it's not just that they're movies, but they changed American culture.

BL: I’ve never seen it.

GJ: Have you ever seen the Shawshank Redemption? 

BL: No.

JP: I haven't seen Shawshank Redemption either.

GJ: How old are you?

JP: I'm 31. I haven't seen that.

GJ: Inexcusable. It's inexcusable. What about Forrest Gump? You've both clearly seen.

BL: I've heard of Forrest Gump. I've never seen it. 

GJ: You've heard of it. 

BL: We got to clip this and put it on our social. Gavin’s face right now is unbelievable.

GJ: I just don't understand why. I don't know. Growing up, I mean, I'm a huge movie and TV person. I used to work at a blockbuster video.

BL: I love Blockbuster. Just to go in there and rent.

GJ: You liar.

BL: Video games.

GJ: You did not. 

BL: Blockbuster and Iggy Video. The two greatest stores that ever existed.

GJ: My name's Brandon, and I like Blockbuster, but I never rented The Godfather. Whenever I was growing up, my parents would be like, ‘Oh no, you have to watch X movie. You have to watch this movie’, and it was like, my mom made me watch Jaws. She made me watch The Omen, The Exorcist. My dad was like, ‘You have to watch this John Wayne movie. You have to watch this Clint Eastwood movie’, and it took me from there, so my dad was like, ‘No, this is the good, the bad and the ugly. You have to watch it’.

BL: You want me to give you one more? This will really probably boil your mines.

GJ: If you say you've never seen Star Wars, I'm going to…

BL: First. I've never seen Star Wars.  I've seen it in parts, but I've never seen the full movie of The Wizard of Oz.

GJ: Well, that's alright. Well, no, that's not alright either. I mean, that's a classic. The Wizard of Oz is an awesome movie.

BL: It was my dad's favorite movie, and within five minutes I got bored. It was not for me. I've seen the part where they go to the Witches Forest and I was like, ‘Okay, this is boring to me’.

GJ: The Wizard of Oz has so many layers. It's a fascinating movie.

BL: Now, maybe now that I'm older, I think I was never diagnosed with it as a kid, I might have had ADHD I just could not pay attention to anything. Now I can sit down, and I can pay attention to stuff. It's like the opposite of what kids today are.

GJ: I love nothing more than reclining on my couch and watching TV for hours and movies for hours.

BL: See, I could do shows. I can't do more than a two-hour movie.

GJ: Well, yeah, I'm not saying all day. I mean, yeah, you watch two or three episodes of a TV show, one movie, and you're good, but I like to do that on a regular basis. Brandon, if you want to continue on this podcast, you need to watch. I will lobby to have you move from this podcast if you don't watch The Godfather, Seinfeld and The Sopranos.

BL: But I am the Man, the myth, the legend.

GJ: You're the man, the myth, the legend of not watching American cultural cornerstones, but I mean with Seinfeld, I mean just go watch The contest. We won't go any further than that.

BL: Is that the name of the episode?

GJ: That's season four. The Contest. Watch The Contest with The Sopranos. The first episode is kind of wonky, the pilot, but I feel like with The Sopranos, Jessica, by the time you go to the college trip in the first season. 

JP: Yeah. 

GJ: That's where you're like, ‘Okay, this show rocks’.

JP: The mom is my favorite character.

BL: In 2028, when we're sponsored by about seven different companies, that's what I'll report back to you guys that I have watched these shows.

GJ: But honestly, at least watch The Godfather. It is like the quintessential American movie and the thing is everything that we're talking about, they're not just movies or TV shows. Seinfeld is about four people who have this adversarial approach to society and etiquette and norms. The Sopranos is about the crumbling of America. The Wire is about the crumbling of America. Breaking Bad is essentially about how our healthcare system is so bad that a teacher would rather sell meth than go bankrupt because he has cancer. The Godfather is just about, it's about family. It's about siblings and about the mafia. I mean, immigrants, too. It’s rich context for American culture, and it's not just art, it's culture and that you have not partaken in. That is wild. Wild.

JP: I watched a movie last night that I feel like is Roads and Bridges and Mass Transit oriented. I watched Planes, transit Automobiles for the first time.

GJ: That's a really good movie. That's a really good Thanksgiving movie.

JP: Yes. It was hilarious. I enjoyed it. I think you'd like it, Brandon.

BL: I've heard of it. People have told me to watch it. I meant to watch it last year. Just never got around to it. I will probably try to get around to it this year.

GJ: Should we do a watch along podcast where we make Brandon watch like The Godfather?

BL: So now you guys are going to test my geography. Then, we do a watch along. We're just going to have spinoffs of the ITP.

GJ: Yeah. I mean, the thing is is there's a lot of interesting infrastructure in The Godfather because there's pivotal scenes on a bridge where they do a u-turn on a bridge. That's pretty impressive. Then, there's a tolling station scene with James Kahan. That is fascinating. That's about it.

JP: I lived by those tolls that they used.

GJ: Really? In New York City? 

JP: Yeah, they're right off of Long Island, and they were the only ones that didn't have EPAs, so I never have cash on me. I get stuck at those tolls all the time.

GJ: So wait, they didn't update it to have Epass because they were in the movie?

JP: Because they were, and they also, it’s a historical landmark that was also updated to have Epass I think because they were, instead of being owned by the state of New York, they were owned by the city of Long Beach or something. It was something like that, so they never, I'm not sure anymore, but when I lived there a few years ago, it was not updated..

GJ: Okay. Well, I had a game that we were going to play where I was going to do over/under with the lengths of bridges. I had it all mapped out. We are running out of time. We don't have time to do that, so the end of our podcast, it's just me yelling at Brandon about what he hasn't watched.

BL: Season finale next week.

GJ: Yes, on the ITP. Our season finale next week is Jessica's interview with two engineers that are listeners will be familiar with because they kicked us off in 2025, and we brought them back to wrap up the year, and we have a couple other interviews that we have in the can that we're going to save for January. And then we have some really special things in store for 2026 that we're excited to get into, but we'll save that. Brandon, what movies do you watch? Marvel movies?

BL: No.

GJ: Really? So you just don't watch movies?

BL: Not really. I went to see The Naked Gun in theaters this summer. That was okay. It was pretty good. It wasn't bad, but it wasn't my favorite movie.

GJ: Did you see the original Naked Gun?

BL: No, I did not.

JP: I think, Brandon, you need good movies. We need to get you into some good movies.

BL: My decision making process is watching a trailer on TV and going, ‘Oh, that looks like an okay movie. Well, let me go see it’. I went to go see the live action of Superman this summer. Did not like that movie at all.

GJ: What do you mean the live action of Superman?

BL: So they remade Superman in this live action.

GJ: Well, Superman was the movie that came out this summer, but all Supermans are live action.

BL: But it was like the remake of it. I don't know. The one that they filmed at Progressive Field here in Cleveland. My understanding was it was a remake of the original from the 1980s or something.

GJ: The Superman that came out this summer?

BL: Yes.

GJ: That was filmed in Cleveland?

BL: Part of it was, yeah.

JP: So how they do, I know they did Captain Hook, and it was live action. Where? Who was it? It was Walkin on a stage, and it was filmed live.

JP: Like Peter Pan or something that it was done a couple years ago?

BL: No, it was like an actual movie.

JP: Okay.

BL: But part of it, yeah, there was a couple films that I’ve seen. There were a couple offices in Cleveland that they used for the movie and then part of it was filmed with Progressive Field, the home of the Cleveland Guardians.

GJ: You're talking about the one with David Corin Sweat as Superman and Rachel Han is Lois Lane?

BL: I believe so, yes.

GJ: And Nicholas Holt. Okay. Yeah. And there's the dog and Supergirl at the end?

BL: Yeah.

GJ: That movie was awesome.

BL: It was okay. I thought they could have done a better job explaining the backstory of Superman for those that haven't seen the movie before.

GJ: Well, that was the thing is everybody knows the backstory of Superman so why go into it. 

BL: Some people don't. Not if you haven’t seen Superman before.

GJ: Have you seen any of the other Supermans?

BL: No. My friend is a huge Superman fan. He told me, he said, ‘You don't need to know anything about Superman. Go see this movie. It's great’, and we both watched together, and he was like, ‘Yeah, that was kind of lame’.

GJ: So you've never seen the Adventures?

BL: No.

GJ: Wow. So basically the only movies you've seen are Christmas movies, like Home Alone, Christmas Story. Christmas Vacation, Elf.

BL: Yes.

GJ: Okay, so you like Christmas movies. Have you seen Diehard? 

BL: No, I have not. I like animation stuff.

GJ: You're into animation?

BL: A little bit. I'm not the biggest movie watcher guys. 

GJ: I get that.

BL: Mostly I consume sports, reality tv, some home renovation stuff, and that's about it.

JP: What reality TV shows?

BL: Survivor, Big Brother, those types of shows. Home renovation stuff, Property Brothers, HGTV, that kind of stuff I'm into. And then sports is pretty much on every single night outside of probably Tuesday.

JP: I want to go on Survivor really bad.

BL: I've already made my application for Big Brother, so if I'm out for two months next year, you guys will know why.

JP: I can’t wait.

GJ: We've been rambling about TVs and movies for like 24 minutes, so let's get out of here. Let's end this podcast beside myself with just confusion as to Brandon's TV watching methods.

BL: Email us guys at [email protected].

GJ: Yeah, email us if you've never seen The Godfather, and we'd like to thank you, the listener, for listening. We'd also like to thank Endeavor B2B, and we would like to thank, I don't know, to thank Brandon and for letting us talk about what he has seen and not seen for the last 20 minutes. That's it for today's show. I'm Gavin Jenkins.

BL: I'm Brandon Lewis from Mass Transit.

JP: And I'm Jessica Parks from Roads and Bridges.

GJ: And we will see you next time. Goodbye.