Infrastructure Technology Podcast: Trimble’s Scott Crozier on the power of technology in modern construction

Episode 6 of the Infrastructure Technology Podcast dives into two key discussions—bike lane safety and the evolving role of technology in construction. Hosts Gavin Jenkins, Brandon Lewis and Ileana Garnand debate the pros and cons of current bike lane designs and explore how compassion and better infrastructure planning can improve cyclist safety. Later, Gavin interviews Scott Crozier, vice president of civil construction at Trimble, about how technology—like 3D modeling, GPS machine control and predictive analytics—is helping contractors and state DOTs navigate economic volatility, extend asset life and modernize infrastructure. The episode ends with the hosts taking questions from listeners.

Here is a transcript from the episode:

GJ: And welcome to the Infrastructure Technology Podcast. I'm Gavin Jenkins with Roads and Bridges, and with me, as always, we have Ileana Garnand, digital editor of Roads and Bridges, and we have Brandon Lewis from Mass Transit. I usually say he's the man, the myth and the legend, but I think you're more of an icon now.

BL: Well, thank you, Gavin, and welcome ITP listeners to episode number six, the first Tuesday of October. Welcome into the 10th month of the year. It's a Tuesday, and it's podcast day.

GJ: Alright, for episode 10 of season number two.

BL: Yes.

GJ: Season number two. Let's begin with a little bit of housekeeping. This is season number two, and we are every week. In season number one, we were every other week, but this season we're every Tuesday. And please reach out to us at [email protected], and Ileana has a couple of those emails from listeners later on in this episode, but first, we are going to talk about bike lanes. Again, we touched upon it in our last episode, and there was more meat on that bone, so we're going to dig in a little deeper, but first, Brandon, who do we have as an interview this week?

BL: So Gavin, this week we have your interview.

GJ: Oh, is it my interview?

BL: Yes.

GJ: Oh my goodness.

BL: With Scott.

GJ: Scott Crozier. I am once again, just the discombobulated editor over here. Yes, I interviewed Scott Crozier of Trimble, and listeners, I will get to his introduction in a moment, but he is from New Zealand, not Australia. But first, let's talk about bike lanes. Ileana, where do you want to begin?

IG: So as we touched on last week, I think we all agree that cyclists deserve some additional safety protections when they're on the road, but I also think the solutions we have right now aren't always working, so I am not an avid cyclist myself and part of that is because I'm afraid to bike on the same streets as the cars here and so my town has a combination of just the normal bike lanes where there's no separation, it's just the paint, but then there are a few sections where it's the protective lanes, and I'm going to go ahead and say that bike lanes are good in theory, but I think they are useless when there's no divider between the car and the bike, and I think even it's a little bit more dangerous if you just have bikes and cars all willy-nilly together on the road. I've noticed that cars get closer to the cyclists and then cyclists also aren't following traffic laws either as well as I would like them to.

GJ: Alright, I agree with what you said. I have a couple of stats I want to throw at you two. So one thing that I, there's facts and then there's perception, right?! So I perceive a lot of cyclists here in Pittsburgh to be kind of like lawbreakers to the extent of, I see personally, I see a lot of them running red lights, and I see a lot of them shooting through intersections. Also just diagonal weaving through traffic. I've seen a lot of bad, dangerous behavior. I've also seen a couple of people hit, but Tampa, there was the Bay Area bicycle law that came out, and this is from Tampa Bay, and they did a study, and it found that cyclists obey traffic laws 88% of the time during the day and 87% at night and so I feel like there's this huge disconnect between what people see and what the reality is in terms of just action. Now, that has nothing to do with the design of the roads, which is another thing we'll get into in a moment, but Brandon, do you agree with those stats? I mean, does it match up with what you've seen?

BL: So I'm a believer in stats. I think that statistics don't lie and so I do believe in those stats, and I think that maybe this is a perception of, as drivers we're always angry, it always feels like, ‘Oh my God, why are these cyclists in our way? Why are they slowing down? Why can't I get past them” and such when in reality, maybe we shouldn't be blaming the cyclists, but just blaming the way the infrastructure is built because maybe they have no other choice.

IG: That's very true. I think that's a great point. I have been trying to catch myself and stop getting so angry at cyclists. From the time of this week's recording and from last week's recording, there was someone who cycled out pretty dangerously in front of my car in a residential area, but that's so true, Brandon. I don't know the stats on this, but I know people who rely on their bicycles to get to work, to get to school, they can't afford a car, and so if the road is only so good and so safe, they're going to do what they have to do.

GJ: Now, before we go on, I have to tell you about the dumbest thing I've ever seen someone do on a bicycle. So I live in Pittsburgh, so I was near the campus of University of Pittsburgh and Carnegie Mellon. I was waiting for the light to change, and cars were going in one direction on Fifth Avenue, and this idiot, he tried to time it so that he would cross right after a bus because after the bus there was nothing coming, but what he didn't see, but I saw from my vantage point on my corner, was in the lane on the other side of that bus was a Carnegie Mellon University police officer, SUV. And this idiot timed it and went right after the bus and then slammed right into the hood on the side fender of this cop, SUV. And the cop, he went onto the hood and then onto the ground, and his bike just got completely destroyed, mangled by the tire. The kid was okay. This older, not in shape, shall we say, police officer gets out of his car. Picture a guy, white mustache, older, meaty paws, throws the bicycle onto the sidewalk and then grabs the kid and just throws him into the back of his police car and then zips away. It was remarkable. Absolutely remarkable.

IG: That is the last car you want to smash into.

GJ: Right?! Alright, what do you think? What roads are probably the most dangerous for cyclists? Would it be rural, suburban or city?

BL: I would say city just because of traffic.

IG: I agree. I think the more cars there are, the more dangerous it is. Even if rural roads are maybe not as well-maintained for a bike, if you're not crossing paths with cars as much, I think you'd be safer.

GJ: Okay, so here's how you break it down. I broke it down. So with urban areas, we have crowded streets, more intersections, conflicts with cars, parking as well, turning vehicles, and also there's the visibility issues with signs and lights, and there's a perception of more rules are broken in the urban areas, so with the suburban areas, you got wider roads, though you get higher speeds with those wider roads, and then the infrastructure though is not as consistent as a grid would have in an urban area and so the routes are kind of missing in the suburban areas, so there's not as many bike lanes, and there's a lack of connectivity and less crossings. And then you have the rural roads, though have wider shoulders, but they have that additional space, less lighting, so it's more dangerous as well out there or can be a perception of more dangerous, but in rural areas, you have fewer cyclists in general, so the fatality numbers are much lower in the rural areas.

IG: It seems like a lose, lose, lose situation. Our country is not built very much for cyclists, so I'm sorry to y'all.

BL: Well, and then the other issue I think too, especially in major cities, is street parking and blocking those roads.

IG: And even out here in a smaller, more suburban town in Texas, we talked about this last week, cars will go into those unprotected bike lanes if they're turning, if they're parking, what do you do? Then, you have to swerve into traffic in front of a car. We have a lot of sidewalks that just stop and don't continue so even if you're trying to stick to sidewalks as a cyclist, you're going to run out of space, and you're going to run out of the route, and you have to go into the busy road.

GJ: So what's the solution then? The solution is widening streets, rehabilitating roads and most places don't have the money for that. The federal funding isn't necessarily there because the federal government just spent billions of dollars on the infrastructure investment, bipartisan infrastructure law. IIJA, I was fumbling over, Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act. I fumbled that bad, but, and so the federal funds are diving into that, and our state and local governments are having a hard enough time keeping the pavement up to date and maintaining bridges so to widen streets, the money isn't there.

BL: Well, the other thing we talked about last week too is when these streets and these roads were built decades and decades ago, they were originally not built for cyclists to use them and as infrastructure now evolves over time, and as we've talked about so many times in so many interviews here on the ITP, I think that there's more roads and more bridges and as newer infrastructure is built, I think they are going to be more accommodative of the bike lane and the infrastructure. The question is when are we going to get there? And it's going to be a very long time.

GJ: Yeah, absolutely. Whenever our infrastructure was built, it was built in the early- to mid-20th century when there was this massive car. Okay, final thoughts on bicycle lanes? Ileana.

IG: My biggest takeaway from this, and this is a lesson I need to really instill in myself, is as a driver, have a little more compassion for cyclists. It's scarier for them than it is for you. I'm going to guess, and they may not have the option to be in a car or to not take that route. They're just trying to get through their day so slow down a little bit, keep your eyes peeled and just be more careful to your cyclist neighbors.

GJ: Yeah, absolutely. Brandon, final thoughts?

BL: Well, while I'm still not the biggest fan of cyclists using the road, 87 to 88% of them do follow the law, so I can only get mad at about 12 or 13%.

GJ: Yeah.

IG: True.

GJ: Yeah, I mean, I think the biggest emphasis is that it's a shared responsibility. Roads are a public infrastructure for everyone, cyclists, drivers, walkers, I mean even scooters to a certain extent. Skateboarders, maybe not skateboarders, but we have to acknowledge frustrations. It's good to talk about it. I don't think that it's healthy for anyone. Just be like, ‘Oh, all yes to all cyclists or oh no to all cyclists’. We have to acknowledge that some cyclists do break roles, and yes, there are some drivers who buzz past them and do express road rage, which is scary and dangerous as well, and it's also healthy and safe, not safe, but it's healthy to acknowledge that roads weren't designed for bikes, and we have to point out that blaming cyclists ignores larger infrastructural issues, and we have to call out myths whenever people are using stereotypes.

IG: Yeah, agreed.

GJ: Alright, well that was our in-depth cycling talk here on the ITP and up next we have my interview with Scott Crozier, who is the vice president of civil construction at Trimble. Scott Crozier is an accomplished vice president who specializes in civil construction, the civil construction field systems, excuse me. He has a strong foundation in mechanical engineering from the University of Canterbury, and he has built a diverse career spanning over two decades in engineering management and product development, so let's take it away here to my interview with Scott. 

GJ: Scott Crozier, welcome to the podcast. 

SC: Thank you, Gavin. Nice to be here.

GJ: I noticed you have an accent, so tell our listeners where you're from.

SC: Okay, so I'm from Christchurch, New Zealand, but I have been over here in Westminster, Colorado, for the last 12 years, but the American accent hasn't affected me yet. It has my children.

GJ: Okay, that's really cool. Okay, well let's jump into it, and we're going to be talking about economic issues and technology as well, and kind of closing the gap during the volatility that our industry is enduring right now, so let's start off with this one. Economic uncertainty is weighing heavily on contractors right now. A lot of our listeners are contractors, so from your perspective, how are proposed tariffs and rising material costs changing the way construction firms approach project planning and execution?

SC: Yeah, it's a good question and one that truly is top of mind at the moment. When I'm out there talking to some of our customer contractors in this space, the first thing they ask us is what are we doing for manufacturing of our products? How are we looking at it? And I think that's to give them some insights maybe in how they might be able to manage their businesses from a tariff perspective. They're certainly looking at diversifying supply chains. They're looking to understand where the majority of their costs and that are coming from, and I would say there is also an expectation that the tariffs might have an element of, or there's been an element of volatility there, but there's also an expectation that those tariffs might come down in certain areas as well so playing a longer game and trying to get through with what they've got as opposed to purchasing materials maybe seem high at the moment under a tariff perspective and just trying to balance out where the opportunities might be to make some wins in the volatile environment, but due to that, they're looking at focusing on business efficiencies outside of the material management and then of course managing and maximizing the resources and assets that they do have during this time.

GJ: Well, let's talk about solutions. Many contractors are delaying or avoiding big equipment purchases. How are technology solutions like asset management and predictive maintenance helping extend the life and productivity of existing fleets?

SC: Yeah, it is interesting. Every time we see the industry go through some of these more challenging times, whether the market or construction output is down a little bit or costs are inflation or rising quickly, we see when it comes to managing their fleets; that they look to modernize their fleet, not by getting a new machine, but with modernizing it by adding technology to it and so there's two places they do that. They can do that through the predictive maintenance telematics type solutions so that they can monitor and manage and get better utilization out of their fleet. Certainly a great way to maximize the fleet and reduce capital purchases. We also see by adding grade control technology or positioning technology, they can start to do some of the work a little bit more efficiently and effectively and so we see an influx of both the telematics technology and the positioning or grade control technology for these machines to help them extend the life of their assets during this period while they might just slow down on capital purchases

GJ: So another aspect of this is the gap, the disconnect between field teams and the office. How is technology closing that gap, and why is that especially critical during a volatile economy such as now?

SC: Yeah, I think it aligns with a little bit with what we touched on before. We saw through COVID actually this massive increase in connected machines and connected job sites. That was because it was hard to get people onto the sites, so they wanted to be able to manage and monitor what was happening on a construction site during that time, and we see now during the times, the volatility with the tariffs and some of the unknown spend, I guess coming from owners, that the technology and the connected machines and connected job sites enabling contractors to not only maximize asset utilization, but to manage the jobs more efficiently. So all kinds of resources, the planning of materials, the planning of subcontractors can be managed from the office and more efficiently and effectively than what we saw prior to these disconnected, I guess, job sites and fleets and machines.

GJ: More specifically though, I think contractors and anyone else in our industry, they want technology to give them a competitive advantage. How can technology give people in our industry an advantage, a competitive advantage during this time?

SC: Yeah, so I guess the first thing that comes to play is labor is always tough to come by. So maximizing the labor and resources that are available, we see the addition of technology making it a little easier to bring on someone, maybe less skilled at operating the machines and so there's an element there where they can maximize what labor is available, and particularly at the moment, attracting workers into the construction space is more challenging, and I know in the past we've seen that the technology is potentially a threat to these skilled operators. What we're actually seeing is the technology is a desirable element for people to want to get into the industry that they see that the construction space or construction industry is moving along with other industries now and just people coming out of school, out of other types of work. Seeing the construction spaces is certainly interesting with the amount of technology that has been put into this industry, whether it's software front. So all jobs are managed digitally with project management, bidding, estimating solutions. We're seeing a lot of digital solutions for managing a job site so going from the paper plans that we would see in a site office now to being able to see progress on a job by visualizing it on your phone, so yeah, just I think those contractors that are embracing the digital technologies, we're seeing it easier for them to attract resources, keep their jobs running on time, minimize or minimize material costs or maximize the opportunity within the specifications to minimize their expensive materials and maximize the lower cost materials, and then of course, as I've mentioned a bit earlier, just being able to get the most out of their assets that they do have so that they can truly get a better ROI on their capital investments.

GJ: Let's talk about specific forms of the technology though. You have digital twins, 3D modeling GPS and machine control technology. With those specifically, where do you want to start? Do you want to start with 3D modeling? How can 3D modeling help contractors and DOT’s reduce work or avoid costly designers?

SC: The 3D model, I guess is right at the heart of everything, to be honest, so it starts with the design. If you've got a 3D model of the design, then that 3D model can be used to optimize planning or the bidding phase for people to do takeoff and start to put the bids in place. Once you've got that 3D model, it can be then used for clash detection planning of phases of the project. We then see that same model being used for surveys or layout folks so that layout can be done in the field digitally instead of paper plans, and then of course, that same 3D model is used to power the machine control systems, whether it be the bulk earth moving the subgrade grading or the paving paving layers, or then of course the final phase of compaction.

GJ: So let's transition now to GPS and machine control technology. How would that improve and say fuel efficiency or maybe lower operating costs?

SC: So I guess the GPS or machine control elements of technology that goes on to be dozers, graders, excavators, compactors, the first thing that we see is it enables the operator to get to grade or get to the grade right time, first time so less passes are required by those machines to get to grade, and obviously with less passes you've got less time, but also less fuel burn of those machines, so we see first step of efficiencies coming in there. The second element of it is designs change. I mean, we all work on projects. Every project we work on, there is a design change somewhere along the line. Getting that change out to the field as quickly as possible is a lot easier digitally than in any other form and so those machines in the field can get that model loaded almost as instantly as the changes is done and verified, and so therefore reducing the amount of rework that needs to go on in the project.

GJ: I have a question for you. It's kind of out of left field. How long, first off, how long have you been in the states?

SC: I've been in the states about 12 years now.

GJ: Yep, 12 years. Alright. How often do people accuse you of being Australian?

SC: Good question, so it happens a bit, right?! It's either British or Australian, and I would say my British. Yep. British. Yeah. UK or Australian. So my Kiwi accent is a little bit more rural so from more of the southern parts of New Zealand, which is a little closer to the Australian accent as well.

GJ: Okay. Alright, so the reason why I ask that question, one, obviously I imagine a lot of our listeners will not be if they're American. I feel like the American ear has a trouble figuring out the difference between Australian and New Zealand. And second is I think a lot of people, and the reason why I ask that is I think a lot of people and the general public don't understand the difference between DOT and contractor because when you drive past, when you're slowed down into a bottleneck, and you're in a one lane, and you see just workers invest and hard hats on the job site, I think a lot of people shake their fists that their local DOT like ‘Oh PennDOT’, if they're in Pennsylvania, which is where I am, and that goes to whether it's a contractor working with a DOT or just DOT or not, it just goes to the immense amount of pressure that state DOT’s are constantly under. So my question to you then would be how can data driven asset management help those DOT’s stretch maintenance dollars further and relieve some of that pressure?

SC: Yeah, I mean, hey, there's a lot to probably unpack here. I mean, I think that frustration that people see, and I get it as well, as I'm driving home, and I'm meant to be home for dinner or whatever, and things are taking long, there's a lot of road maintenance going on at the moment. By the way, the finished results are phenomenal. I think where the technology is taken a lot of these projects is that the result you get out of either the new road or the resurfaced road at the end of this creates a much better experience for the user, but what I would say is while that construction process is underway, the need to shut the roads down or minimize the flow of traffic is frustrating. What technology can do is reduce the amount of time those roads need to be shut down for. Even with guidance technology, it makes it easier to actually do the job at night as well so some of the roads that need to be shut down, you'll see a lot of construction projects, particularly roading, is done in the small hours of the early hours of the day or late hours of the evening, right?! And technology enables them to do that. If you can't really see where you're going on, you wouldn't really know where to work. Technology gives you those eyes even when it's dark so shutting the roads down for a minimal amount of time, I think, and giving the best surface at the end, I think are two key elements that we get out of today's technology. Of course, you want to maximize those dollars while you're doing it so you can do more repair, more roads or build more roads to maximize the flow of traffic, so you want to maximize your dollars to enable that for the communities and what we see with that is the tools like mobile mapping, which is a scanning device that sits on the back of a vehicle, a little bit like a Google car that drives around the streets, but we're scanning to millimeter precision and collecting everything about the surrounding, not just the road itself, but the surroundings of the road to manage for street signs, any maintenance issues that might come with trees, power lines, but in particular the road and looking for potholes, cracks, changes in elevation of the road areas where the drainage might not be flowing quite right. Settlement within the road so that data can be captured, driving around at road speeds, driving speeds, be loaded into a software package, run through some AI agents to pull out all of these elements from, I talked about cracks, potholes, shrinkage, anything that could be wrong with the road, and then that information can be highlighted by an expert and then they can optimize when they go and repair or fix that deteriorating asset, let's say. That's a really good way to maximize dollars, maintenance dollars, and we see Caltrans and tech start really leading the way with those tools today.

GJ: Alright, let's stay with DOT’s for 500. Okay, so DOT’s are also responsible for long-term infrastructure health, so let's talk about predictive analytics, extending the life of roads and bridges with the assets. How can technology help in that way?

SC: Yeah, so for me, the best way to reduce or ensure long-term infrastructure health is with a great design and then constructing to design as well, and I think the best part of that is to make sure that technology can be capturing how the road is being built, and I think it gives transparency for quality assurance to the owners of that road, and we particularly see the compaction phase so material and compaction phases are key to the longevity of that road. I think often, and look, I've spent a lot of time in China. I spent two years living in China working on HighSpeed rails, spent a little bit of time over in India as well, and the biggest issues they have, roads would be built or rail, high speed rail would be built and within three to five years, we're seeing failures of those assets. It was all due to compaction processes that weren't followed to the T, so for me, the ability to bring technology in and manage and monitor and capture the data of how a road is built and particularly compacted, we will see improved health of that road, and therefore reduced operating lifetime costs.

GJ: Where in China did you live?

SC: I lived in the Siwan Province, about a two-hour flight inland from Shanghai.

GJ: Yeah. Excellent. I taught English in Sheen for two years.

SC: Oh wow, okay. Yeah. Amazing experience right now. When we came back to the U.S., we loved coming back here. Don't get me wrong, the experience was phenomenal, and it's wild. I'll do it again in a heartbeat.

GJ: It's wild. I'll tell you what, since we're talking infrastructure and technology now, so I was there from 2008 to 2010. When were you there?

SC: I was there from 2010 to 2012.

GJ: It was a tag team. As I was coming out, I smacked you on the shoulder and you went in.

SC: Exactly. Yep. We had a joint venture. I was on with China rail, so it was a China rail, Trimble joint venture, and it was right at the time the high-speed rail was really starting to peak there.

GJ: You know what, I wrote a column earlier this year about how I wish there were more high-speed rail in America and one of the things I wrote about and I mentioned was I went from Guang jo to Shanghai overnight, and that's the equivalent, I forget, it's like Chicago to New York overnight on a train. It's insane and here in America, that would take you 10 hours by train, something ridiculous, but that's interesting for you to talk about how the trains then have the assets aren't taken care of afterwards. I feel like Americans can learn a lot from seeing the infrastructure from other countries. Europe has really great roads, really great highways, and I've seen, even in New Zealand, there's some really great work that has been done in the last decade in New Zealand as well and so I'm sure you've seen a lot of that as well in your travels.

SC: I sure have, and I must admit, when I'm driving, when I'm going around these different countries, and I do travel a lot with my job, it's one of the perks, I guess. I was just home in New Zealand, Christchurch, my hometown, which 12 years, oh, maybe more now 15 years ago, was damaged through earthquakes and so there was a whole lot of infrastructure that had to be rebuilt. I mean, you go back to the city there now, and the roads are beautiful. I mean, I wish I could drive faster on them. The speed limit keeps you down, but man, they are built like a racetrack and just smooth, phenomenal experience for driving, but I would also say as I go around the U.S. here and you go from state to state or DOT to DOT, there's certainly variations that I see right across the states, and man, there's some that lead the way and there's some that could learn a lot from some of these other ones.

GJ: I was just talking about this with someone the other day and how, so we were at the Public Works Expo in Chicago, Roads and Bridges, and we were talking to some of the public works directors from around the country, and there are rural area public works directors where their public works in their municipality or their town, they don't even have mechanics to work on their fleets. They have to get a guy from the community who just knows engines down the street to come in and just do it for free, that sort of thing, and it's the same thing. It is not as extreme at the DOT level, but at the DOT’s, there's the haves and the have nots, and sometimes you can see it on the DOT websites. Some of the websites look to be like 12 years old, and in 2025, if you have a 10-year-old website, it shows, it really shows, and to see that you can also see it in the infrastructure as well is really interesting. Before we get out of here, I'd love to hear a little bit more about your career.

SC: I would love to, right?! So I started as a mechanical engineer, as you kind of noted in the intro here, straight out of college, to be honest, you go through four years of mechanical engineering school in your final year. I was putting my resume curriculum vitae or CV we would call it down home, put it into the drop boxes of the companies that we're hiring in the region and got lucky enough to get an opportunity to interview with Trimble, and so I've been with Trimble for 26 years now, ever since I left college and started off as a mechanical engineer working on our agriculture guidance solutions and then moved into our construction control solutions. So machine control solutions, 2002, Trimble created a joint venture with Caterpillar, so CT Caterpillar, Trimble control technologies, and I was one of the initial members I guess of that joint venture, 20 something years on. I'm on the board of that joint venture at the moment, so it's been amazing to go from being a mechanical engineer, working on some of the products, to now helping run and guide that entity. Anyway, so 10 years in Christchurch, then in 2010, I went over to China, spent two years in China working in the high-speed rail joint venture. More of a surveying, I guess, part role there. I learned a lot and learned to love construction. When I was in CT in New Zealand, it was more about loving product development and loving engineering and then I really got a taste for construction over in my role in China, and that was an appreciation after coming from a family farm, so I grew up on a family farm. I got three brothers back home in Christchurch, New Zealand, still running that family farm, and so I would be there if it wasn't for engineering school and the opportunity Trimble gave me, and so then 2012, after two years in China, we weren't ready to go back to New Zealand. There was an opportunity in the U.S. as a product manager working on our compact machine solutions, so this is laser and GPS guidance solutions for small excavators, skid steer, loaders, grading, attachments, and again, I just found my passion there and have been in this space ever since, working up through this division and eventually running the division now.

GJ: That's awesome.

SC: Yep. Now the general manager of our civil construction business.

GJ: That is awesome. That is so cool. And what a journey. Well, Scott, thank you so much for your time and for talking to us on the Infrastructure Technology podcast. I sent you a long list of things to go over. Is there anything we didn't hit that you want to hit before we sign off?

SC: No. Yeah, nothing really extra here. I mean, there's a lot of really good success stories out there, so if people are interested in what technology can do for them as far as a DOT or a contractor working on roads, highways, commercial site developments, I would say even stadiums. We've done a lot of NASCAR tracks, F1 tracks, baseball stadiums, all that kind of stuff. Technology can really help in all of those applications. There are a ton of customer stories out there to go and learn from. I think that's the best way to learn, and so if you search for customer stories, Trimble website has plenty. I'm sure there's other opportunities to find these same articles, but yeah, just a really good way to look for contractors that have been in a similar situation to everyone out there and have adopted some of the technology and where they're finding wins, and you'll see it in so many different places. Everyone initially looks for it for the efficiencies and productivity gains, but a lot of it comes out of actual material savings and accuracy, transparency, quality assurance, so we say Trimble technology helps build better, safer, faster, cheaper and greener.

GJ: Yeah, absolutely, and I think Trimble also helps people see the world, and they definitely have done that with you. Scott, thank you again for coming on the Infrastructure Technology podcast. Hope we get a chance to talk to you again soon.

SC: My pleasure, Gavin. Thank you.

GJ: Alright, that was my interview with Scott Crozier. The Z throws me off, but he did not throw me off. He was an excellent interview and a really fun guy to talk to, and he's from Trimble. Brandon, tell me, what did you think?

BL: So my biggest takeaway from this is Scott not only lived in China for a little bit, which you did as well, Gavin, which I was shocked to hear, but Scott was talking about that while in China about these railroads and the fact that three, five years overseas that they were falling apart and that this AI technology that is being used right now to build railroads not in the United States is making them last for decades and decades and this high-speed rail is really transforming overseas, and obviously in the United States, there's been plans to build some high-speed rails, specifically out west, and we'll see where everything goes with that, but it's a very interesting time when it comes to that and the infrastructure, at least in the rail business and the Mass Transit side.

GJ: Yeah, absolutely, and to that extent, I think what's interesting is you have companies like Trimble, Bentley that help foreign countries just really make great infrastructure, and so we're almost like exporting next generation infrastructure, or at least software to help you do it. It's really cool, and Trimble is a really great company, and if it wasn't for Trimble, Scott would still be maybe in New Zealand, but now he's lived in China, he lives in America, and he's gotten to see the world thanks to working for a great company like Trimble. Not a sponsor, it's not a sponsor of the program. Free advertisement for Trimble. Ileana, what did you think?

IG: I kind of echo Brandon. I think my favorite part was hearing about both of your experiences in China. It's always fascinating to have that international look into infrastructure. Getting past our American perspectives I think is really important to see what everyone else is doing out there, what we can learn from them. I'm so jealous of all of the high-speed rails, and I want them to come to the U.S. so badly.

GJ: Well, the most interesting, well, not the most, one of the more interesting aspects of living in China. So I lived in Shenzhen for two years, and you see construction everywhere. I mean, it's just constant roadwork buildings being built and the workers that I saw. Now, I was there from 2008 to 2010 and whenever I saw construction workers, they were not wearing hard hats. They were wearing shower shoes, flip flops and they weren't wearing hard pants and neon vests. They were wearing beat up suits. They were migrants from rural China who came into the city just to do that work, and they had little camps around the roadwork in Shenzhen when I was there. They were expanding the Metro system and so there were roads that just had massive holes alongside them as they were stretching it out, and you just saw these guys in their twenties and thirties who were not wearing safety equipment and were working in 12 hour shifts, and they had little sheds where they had bunk beds, and it was really wild, but when you're able to have that kind of workforce and different safety requirements and different oversight, you're able to build fast.

IG: Yeah, well I'm glad we have some different safety standards and our construction workers have hard hats, but we also have a lot of people in the industry that are migrant workers coming from different places, so it's important to stay grateful for people who are doing jobs that other people may not want to.

GJ: Absolutely. And another thing that you would see in China is people using blow torches on construction sites. No goggles, and it was just, wow. Wow! Or sometimes they would have sunglasses in front of them, and they'd just be holding them.

BL: That’s worse.

GJ: Oh, it was just like you'd look at it, I'd be like, ‘Oh my goodness, what are you guys doing’? Flip flops. It was just like one of those sparks might hit your toe, man. Danger all around. Alright, that was my interview. Now, we have some listener emails to dive into. Ileana, take it away.

IG: Yes, so our first email is from Louis in Michigan, and Louis called out something that, I started it and then I think it was mostly Gavin and I. So in a previous episode we mispronounced the Mackinac Bridge. I called it the Mackinac because in my defense that's how it's spelled, but sorry, Louis, sorry, Michigan. All I can say is I'm working off of looking at the written word.

GJ: My excuse. First off, I am deeply embarrassed and sorry to the state of Michigan and Mackinac. Mackinac. Let me tell you something, I am from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, and we mispronounce words, and we also have a terrible accent, but I myself, I mispronounce words all the time and sometimes I can't blame it on Pittsburgh. Sometimes it's just I'm kind of dumb in that way. The word cacophony. For years, I was calling it cacophony.

IG: That's fun though. That's a fun pronunciation.

GJ: I was in college, and I said cacophony, and my brother was like, ‘What are you talking about? You mean cacophony’? And I'm like, ‘What? Cacophony? It's cacophony. So that's the kind of person I am, unfortunately.

IG: I think we're pretty good about catching it usually or prefacing that, ‘Hey, I don't know if I'm saying this correctly’, but something that I always have trouble with as someone from Texas, a few times I've been to New York, I have to stop myself from saying Houston Street instead of Houston Street because it is spelled.

GJ: I would say Houston too.

IG: It's spelled exactly like Houston, but it's named after someone, so yes, we should respect that person's correct pronunciation, but also, Houston. 

GJ: Alright, what is our next question?

IG: Yeah, and this one is also pretty fun. Rita from Arizona was wondering what we thought of the term ‘clanker’. And so I have to ask Gavin and Brandon, are you familiar with this new term?

GJ: I am. Now, I am familiar with it because it was talked about on a fantasy football podcast that I listened to, oddly enough, and on that podcast, the Ringer Fantasy Football Show, is the name of the podcast, and what they did was they have one 20 something, one podcaster who's like 30 and then a guy who's my age in his mid forties, and they frequently ask him if he knows certain Gen Z terminology and so that's how I learned about this word. Brandon, what about you?

BL: I do not. I have never even heard of this word, so I have no idea what you guys are talking about right now.

IG: Wonderful.

GJ: Okay, so this is great. Alright, so first off, I'm 44. I straddle a line between Gen X and millennial. I was born in 1980. I'll be 45 in like six weeks. Ileana, you are 25?

IG: I'm 24.

GJ: 24. So you are dead set in the middle of Gen Z.

IG: Yep. Full Gen Z’er.

GJ: And Brandon, how old are you?

BL: At the time this podcast will be airing, I will have just turned 27, about a week ago.

GJ: Okay, happy early birthday to Brandon Lewis.

IG: Yes, happy birthday.

GJ: Thank you, Brandon, so you're 26, about to turn 27?

BL: Yes.

GJ: Okay. Alright. What a time to be alive for both of you.

IG: Any guesses, Brandon? What do you think clanker means?

GJ: Yeah, clanker.

BL: So you say it obviously has to do with technology and infrastructure. I don't think we'd be talking about it. Something with computers would be my guess.

GJ: Okay. Alright, I'm going to use it in a sentence. Okay. You ready? Okay. My 8-year-old nephew is obsessed with his iPad, and I joke that he's going to take a clanker to the prom one day.

BL: Okay.

GJ: Alright, what do you think clanker means?

BL: Someone obsessed with technology?

GJ: No, no, no, no. I joke that he's going to take a clanker to the prom.

BL: Someone that has, so he going to take, okay, so he's obsessed with his iPad, so you joke that he's going to take a clanker to the prom. Sorry, I am so bad at this guys. 

IG: I joke around with my friends that when we are old, we're going to call and our grandchildren are going to say, ‘Hey, you can't say that.’

GJ: Yeah, yeah. Alright, I got another one for you. Alright, this will make it very obvious, Brandon.

BL: Okay.

GJ: Recently, Roads and Bridges just hired a new writer. Jessica starts, well, she'll be already on board when this airs. She's starting in a week. I went through a lot of resumes and cover letters that were obviously written by clankers.

BL: I still, you guys, I'm so bad at this, but no, and by the way, please do not edit any this out. I want the ITP listeners to feel my pain.

GJ: Okay, when I say a clanker wrote a resume, what do you think that means?

BL: The computer wrote it. AI wrote it. 

GJ: Yes, AI. There you go. Okay, so clanker is basically AI. It's a derogatory term for AI And so in our future when we have robots walking around talking to us, a slur will be to call them a clanker.

IG: You clanker.

BL: Where did that come from? Does anybody know?

IG: The internet?

BL: I'm thinking everything else. Something, because I'm the sports guy, this guy clanks a shot off the rim, like in basketball.

GJ: Okay, I see your confusion now. 

IG: I think it comes from frustration maybe of, especially our generation, Brandon, how AI is just being added into everything, whether we like it or not, so I think it's kind of a humorous response to that. That's how I take it. 

BL: I think the bigger conversation needs to be, why does our generation feel the need to use slang? Everybody has these terms that these people say, and I have no idea what they mean, and I'm like, ‘I'm in your generation. I've never heard these before’.

IG: Every generation has slang to be fair.

GJ: But slang is so much fun. 

BL: See, I don't find it fun. I find it confusing. 

GJ: I think you need to talk to the hands. I think you need to talk to the hands.

IG: So I use clanker in my life. Usually when I'm joking around with friends, but Gavin, do you use it, and then Brandon, now that you know it, do you think you'll be finding yourself using clanker?

BL: 100%, I will not be using it. I don't use any slang.

GJ: I don't use it. I just learned it a week ago, and as you can guess, I'm in my mid forties. I don't have any friends that I talk to. My friends conversations mostly revolve around new things that hurt and frankly, no, clanker hasn’t come up yet, but if my nephew takes a clanker to prom, they'll be talking about it then.

IG: Exactly.

GJ: I mean, the thing is, I just want to state for the record, I mean this is going to be out in the world on the internet that I won't use clanker, and I think it is a derogatory term, and to our AI overlords who are hearing this in the future, I support you.

BL: It does sound derogatory. That's why I was so surprised about it.

GJ: Oh, you don't think it sounds derogatory?

BL: No, I said it does. 

GJ: Oh, it does. 

BL: That's why I was so surprised that people are using it. It sounds so hurtful.

GJ: Yeah, I think Americans can make any word derogatory and a slur if we wanted to.

IG: That's true.

GJ: That's just kind of part of what we are.

IG: Yeah, but when the robot human wars start, I think clanker will come in handy, especially if they're humanoid and be like, ‘Are you a clanker’?

GJ: Yeah. Are any of you watching Alien Earth? There's some clankers on Alien Earth.

BL: I've heard of it.

IG: I have not watched it, no. It's a great example sentence as well.

GJ: Yeah, I should have went with that instead of throwing my nephew under the bus. Okay. Alright, that has been our episode for this week. I would like to thank Scott Crozier and everyone at Trimble. I'd also like to thank our parent company, Endeavor B2B, and I would also like to thank you, the listener, for tuning in. We will be back next week. Brandon, now I'm going to kick it to you for this. This is actually legit. Who do we have next week?

BL: Next week, I have been trying to get this guest on the ITP since we launched season one in January of last year, so it's been a long time coming. Gavin, Ileana, we've wanted to do this episode forever. We're doing an episode on autonomous vehicles and what the Jacksonville Transportation Authority is doing with JTA CEO Nat Ford. I cannot wait for you guys to hear our conversation next week.

GJ: Excellent. Alright, well until then, I'm Gavin Jenkins, with Brandon Lewis and Ileana Garnand, saying goodbye.