Infrastructure Technology Podcast: STV’s AI partnership with the Chicago Transit Authority

Episode 5 starts with What’s the Word?, a fast-paced round of one-word reactions to infrastructure developments in Texas and Georgia. Brandon then interviews Joe Marchiafava of STV, who breaks down the firm’s partnership with the Chicago Transit Authority on an AI-powered pilot project. Using computer vision and edge computing, the system detects right-of-way intrusions on train tracks in real time, potentially preventing injuries and service delays. Joe also explores how digital twins can revolutionize asset management while reminding listeners not to blindly trust automation. The show wraps with Ileana’s explainer on potholes, covering their causes, repair methods and safe driving strategies.

Here is a transcript from the episode:

GJ: And welcome to the Infrastructure Technology Podcast. I'm Gavin Jenkins with Roads and Bridges, and with me I have, as always, Ileana Garnand, digital editor of Roads and Bridges, and then, I have that man, the myth, the legend. Brandon Lewis, associate editor of Mass Transit. Brandon, tell em what day it is.

BL: It is Tuesday, which means it's podcast day. We're back. Episode five.

GJ: Episode five. Ileana, how do you feel to be five podcasts in with the ITP crew?

IG: It feels like it's flown by. I was thinking about that this morning. I was trying to count out which episode number this was, and I was shocked that it's already five.

GJ: Yeah, you're a veteran. So folks out there, listeners, we just want to thank you for listening, and we want to remind you that we are weekly. We used to be twice a month but now we are weekly. Every Tuesday we are coming to your ears. And also, you can email us, holler at us, you can email us at [email protected], and we had some really great emails for us last week, and we'll get back into that maybe next week, but today we got an interview from Brandon. Brandon, tell us who are we going to hear today?

BL: So today, we are going to be hearing from, and I told Joseph this in the interview, I said, ‘Joe, I'm going to butcher your last name, so I apologize, even though it is a great last name’. It is Joe Marchiafava from STV. He's the digital development manager, and we talk about STV's relationship with the Chicago Transit Authority.

GJ: Today, Chicago City is in the news. We won't talk about that though. We were just there for the PWX. Ileana and I were there in August. I got to tell you, my first time to Chicago, it was very clean. I was shocked at how clean it was. Very friendly. But anyway.

IG: It's a beautiful city, and I absolutely love it. It was beautiful seeing the trains in the air. I think that's so cool that they're not all hidden underground.

GJ: Yeah, you and I walked around, we saw the train, it was cool.

IG: We saw a mini train.

GJ: Yeah

IG: Yeah, it's really cool.

GJ: Yeah, it's cool.

BL: I have never been to Chicago, but it is so close to Cleveland and I think out of all of the big cities you can think of New York, LA, Philly, DC, ect., I think the one place that I would want to go out of those five would probably be Chicago.

IG: You got to go.

GJ: So Ileana, Brandon and I are fans of this TV show. It's called Pardon the Interruption. Are you familiar with it?

IG: No. You've mentioned it before on the podcast, but I'm not familiar with it.

GJ: Tony Kornheiser, Michael Wilbon. It's on ESPN. It is near and dear to my heart. I've been watching it nearly every day since I was in college over 20 years ago. Brandon, how about your relationship with Pardon the interruption.

BL: So I used to watch it way back in the day when I used to come home from school, sit down, do homework, finish it, and I wanted to make sure I got my homework done by 5:30 Eastern Time, and Kornheiser would be on the air talking all the day’s sports. I now sometimes catch it every once in a while, especially after football Sundays. Unfortunately, with my busy schedule, I don't catch it all the time anymore. I'll try to catch up on a YouTube clip or stuff they post on social, but those guys have been killing it in the industry for the last two decades

GJ: And those guys are old. So it goes back, they've been killing it in the industry for years. Years. So one of their bits that I adore is, What's the Word? And so we're going to play What's the Word. I'm going to tell you a little news factoid, and you have to give me the word that comes to mind. Are you ready to play What's the word?

IG: Yes, my word is excited.

GJ: Okay, alright.

IG: I don’t know if that’s how it works.

GJ: Why don't you just use excited for every answer. That would be funny. Yeah, alright. First up, we have Beaumont Texas. In Beaumont, Texas, they're rolling out 387 million of an infrastructure plan. Beaumont's Community Investment plan commits $387 million over five years using bonds and grants to revamp local infrastructure. Now a part of that, they have 95 million for streets, resurfacing, bridge replacements, traffic signals, school zone signs, plus they have water, sewer and drainage upgrades. So what is the word on Beaumont Texas's infrastructure plans? Ileana, you go first.

IG: The word is essential, and I picked it because back in November when Beaumont initially did a bond initiative, the sewer and water parts of this funding were missing, and that's one of the things that residents were really asking for, so on one hand, they're really listening to the residents saying, ‘This is what we need, and this is what we'd like’, but sewer and water goes hand in hand with effective infrastructure, so this is essential.

GJ: Okay. Brandon, what's your word?

BL: My word is patience because this investment plan, as you mentioned, Gavin, is taking up a lot of money, $387 million, but that money is going to be spread out over five years, and as we talked about Ileana and the ITP here, when it comes to infrastructure, when it comes to technology, when it comes to time, everything takes time, so this is going to take time to rebuild and revamp this local infrastructure. There's a lot going on here. As you mentioned, the resurfacing, the bridge replacements, the water, the sewer, the drainage, upgrades, all of it. It's not going to be an overnight success, so as you mentioned, this is going to take place over five years, so it's going to take some time.

GJ: Excellent.

IG: I love that. That's so wise.

GJ: That's really good.

IG: I need to apply that to my own life, Brandon.

GJ: Patience. All you need is a little patience, as Guns N Roses once said. I would go with strategic. I mean, if you look at how comprehensive this plan is, it is obvious that the leaders in Beaumont sat down, they listened to engineers and they just came up with this really strategic plan, and it's going to improve the infrastructure there. I love it. Okay. Alright, next one. We're staying in Texas, home of Ileana Garnand. Midland, Texas, is scrambling to fund school area roads. Midland's City Council proves $18.1 million for roadway improvements adjacent to the new high school projects left out a previous 1.4 billion bond. The city and the school district will share costs starting repayment in 2027. Alright, Ileana, what is your word for Midland, Texas?

IG: My word is bittersweet. I think it's good that these improvements are happening. Public education in Texas unfortunately has been a little neglected by higher funding powers, so I'm glad to see that localities are taking it into their own hands, but the Midland City Council is not very happy that they have to take on such a large portion of this funding, so this should be something that the community is fully in agreement with and celebrating and excited, and that's unfortunately not the situation, so it's bittersweet.

GJ: Brandon, what's say you?

BL: My word is going to be finally, and the reason I say this is because, and again, I know there are a lot of situations, there's a lot of politics involved in funding, and I understand that, but there is also a lot of money in this world, and there's a lot of infrastructure, and I don't care where you live, there's always infrastructure in need of repair and getting students safe. We go to school on roadways, whether it's by car or whether it's by bike. As much as I don't like people riding their bicycles in the street, people do it, and as safe as we can get them to school, the better. And whatever funding that needs to go into that, in my opinion, should happen.

IG: Preach, Brandon. Preach.

GJ: Right. My word would be reactive. The leaders of Midland have clearly seen the problems. They've heard complaints, and they're reacting, and you can say what you will about the leaders of this country, but you want people who react when a problem is brought to their attention, and that's what they're doing. They're being reactive. Alright, so Brandon, you are anti bicycles in the streets?

BL: I am, believe it or not, as somebody who rides an electric wheelchair, I'm actually anti bicycle in the street. I'm anti electric wheelchair in the street if possible. I am just, I'm a firm believer streets were built for cars, sidewalks were built for people and bicycles and wheelchairs and roads and whatever other mobility devices, but that streets were specifically made for cars and buses and vehicles.

IG: How do you feel about a separated bike lane if it's in the street, but it's not getting in the way if the cars or anything?

BL: It's a great question. There is some around the neighborhoods that I live in. I don't necessarily prefer it, but it's better than just people riding their bike in the middle of the street. I still think though it slows down traffic to an unnecessary point.

IG: Fascinating. My big thing is no one, I have a lot of bicyclists in my city, but no one seems to understand that they also need to follow traffic laws, like stop signs and red lights.

BL: That's the bigger issue.

IG: Yeah, I have a bike. I don't bike on the streets here because I'm very afraid, but I'm also very afraid when I'm driving near a cyclist because there's been times where I have the right of way, and someone's just zoomed in front of me, and I've been careful, thankfully, but I'm worried for them. You're going to get hurt, and then I'm also worried for myself that unfortunately someday there's going to be low visibility or something's going to jump out. Yeah.

GJ: Yes. Fascinating. Okay. I think that should be something we dig into another time, but as of right now, we got one more. What's the word to get to Atlanta? Home of the Falcons. They are boosting business supporting mid roadworks after the Cascade Road. Complete Streets project hurt local businesses. Atlanta redirected unused recovery funds to create assistance programs. The project included resurfacing bike lanes, hello, sidewalks and traffic signals upgrades. What is the word for Atlanta boosting business support? Brandon, what is your word? We'll start with you this time for Atlanta.

BL: I may shock you guys by this word, but I'm actually going to go with transit, and the reason is because I think that this goes hand in hand with a lot of what MARTA is doing and the city of Atlanta is doing to make transit upgrades in Atlanta. We know Atlanta, believe it or not, is one of the most populated cities in the U.S. The Georgia region has been growing specifically over the last half decade, and I think that this bike lane infrastructure and the transit signal stuff is actually going to pair well with transit as well, so it's going to go hand in hand.

GJ: Alright. Ileana, what's say you,

IG: The word is warranted, so business owners really suffered during this construction phase, and the city did staff another crew and worked 12 hour shifts after hearing these complaints but that still doesn't fully make up for the losses the business faced during these detours and the inability of customers to get to them, so I think it's really easy to focus on the end benefits of a project like this and say that this is going to be great, and you're going to have so much more business, but while that's being done, you have to make up and repay these local businesses for what they're suffering while that change is happening.

GJ: Yeah, absolutely. And so my word was going to be fair. I mean, it makes up for what was done. You can't get around. I mean, certain road upgrades have to happen. You just can't get around it, but you can get those business owners back, help them out in other ways, and that's fair, and so I like what they're doing. Okay, that’s What's the Word? And next, we are going to go to Brandon's interview. Brandon, I don't want to butcher the name. You're in charge of butchering the name so lead us out.

BL: Okay, we are going to go to my interview with STV Digital Development Manager Joe Marchiafava.

GJ: Alright, thank you Brandon. We'll see you on the other end.

BL: We have a special guest from STV. Joseph, why don't you go ahead and introduce yourself.

JM: Hi, it’s really exciting being here. My name's Joe Marchiafava. I'm a digital development, digital advisory lead here at STV.

BL: You know, guys, I told Joe before we started the recording of this podcast, I said, ‘Joe, your last name, it's such a great last name, but I said, I'm not pronouncing it’.

JM: I'm used to it.

BL: So today we are talking about STV and your guys' relationship with the Chicago Transit Authority. Now, we had on the CTA before on the ITP with their second chance program, that was episode eight of the ITP, but you guys are working with the CTA under their innovation studio, and you guys are testing camera based capabilities that detects and respond to intrusions on the right of way at two rail stations. Joe, do you want to go ahead and talk a little bit about what this pilot project will do with the CTA?

JM: Yeah, it's one of the projects I'm really most excited about here at STV because it's very digitally driven, which doesn't always happen a lot, so we were selected to help deploy a digital solution using artificial intelligence and computer vision, so we partnered with Dirk, a really exciting AI company that uses AI powered detection algorithms to identify people, large objects entering the track area in real time, so when an intrusion is detected, alerts are sent immediately to CTA’s control center, so that they can respond swiftly, potentially preventing injuries and reducing service delays.

BL: Now, how quick did this technology come about? As we all know, AI has sort of come in as a buzzword, I guess, if you will, at the end of 2024, but really now it's here in 2025. I mean, how many times have we talked about it right here on the ITP? It has really come faster than anybody ever expected, so Joe, how quick did this technology sort of come about and make this partnership with the CTA happen?

JM: Yeah, so AI is definitely a buzzword. It comes up a lot. I mean, but it is also real, and the great thing about this is that we're focusing on AI and its impact and solving real challenges. So this example that we're talking about with CTA, it's especially impactful because right of way intrusions are surprisingly a common challenge for many major transit systems, and they often involve people retrieving like dropped phones and other items on the tracks, so this is an example where there are thousands of such incidents each year and then each one possess proposing serious risk and disruptions to operations, so with this pilot, we're able to test out these cutting edge AI ideas, how we can leverage AI to analyze information that's available to us right away in real time, and that happens through edge computing, so more broadly, this collaboration really speaks to the future digital infrastructure where AI and real-time data aren't just buzzwords, but actual practical tools in which we're applying today and making systems safer.

BL: Now, what is the edge computing component of it?

JM: Alright, good, I'm glad you asked. I definitely, I looked this up a while ago just because I wanted to make sure that I'm giving accurate information, so you have a couple examples here. Some might ask ‘What are the cameras that you're deploying? Are they AI enhanced cameras’? So for this example, these are normal cameras, and what happens is that information that's captured from that camera goes into a system, an edge device, which edge devices mean that all the computing, all the analysis happens right there on premise, which is really helpful for analytics. That gets then sent back to the operation center, so that they can then act on it. It will send alerts, it will give accurate information of what's being captured in real time versus you have the cloud computing where information is then captured, sent to a larger database with larger models that can run additional analytics on it and then you use those analytics at a later date.

BL: Okay, I gotcha, so if I'm hearing you correctly, then the difference is really the timing of it, right?! I mean, getting that real time and then I'm assuming the real time, it's really where the AI technology comes in because it's computing in and translating it at a much more rapid speed.

JM: And it really depends on the use case and what you need it for, and when it comes to safety, real time is paramount so having the ability to analyze on an edge device is really important.

BL: So you mentioned sort of that digital twin technology, and again, like AI, this is coming I think, faster than anybody expected it to come, but I think it's sort of coming faster than many people would think or realize even at the same time. What is it about this digital twin technology? Because I have heard the term used loosely more so in the last few months than in the recent past, but what is it that you think, Joe, is going to change about the industries, specifically in transit?

JM: Yeah, so with digital twins, it really depends on who's asking because digital twins can also be a buzzword. It's really a catchall phrase for how technologies help manage information for the end user, so digital twins in the transit space, yes, absolutely can be helping transit agencies plan, operate and maintain their systems, but at its core, digital twin is really that digital replica of a physical asset. You can imagine it like a station, a rail corridor, an entire transit network, so the value behind it really depends on the end goal, who's going to use it and for what, so the real power behind that is what it gives to the user, what it's giving to the agencies as a dynamic data model for their infrastructure and the ability to be able to simulate what if scenarios, predict maintenance needs and even optimize service delivery. It all really becomes valuable when leveraging data against assets.

BL: Yeah. So you mentioned about the real time cameras versus the AI cameras. How is this pilot going to use the real-time cameras, right?! Could you give me a bit of insight as to maybe what's the difference between a real-time camera versus a camera that's run by AI?

JM: Yeah, so maybe let me clarify a little bit on that point. So these cameras are traditional cameras, typical fish eye lenses that are then a part of a system of software processing and that camera feeds into an edge device, which then runs the AI algorithm on top of it and then that's where it starts identifying the information, parsing out specific pieces of information. That then gets sent as alerts, as well as other corresponding information to the operating centers, so that means that it's happening as an edge processing device versus the cloud processing. The other type of system would just be traditional cameras and then manual monitoring so then you're not having the analytics that are happening in real time, being able to feed an operating center and then be able to make decisions right away and ultimately prevent any safety concerns.

BL: I gotcha. Now, you talked about the lenses there. Are the cameras themselves, are they different or what's their power, their capabilities? I guess what would the lenses be like?

JM: Sure. No, actually, they're just typical standard cameras. I mean, you could technically use a phone camera. You can use any camera that can provide a feed of information. That information then gets fed into an AI device, which is processing it, and then identifying what's being seen in the video itself, performing video analytics.

BL: So let's go a little bit about how the partnership with CTA came about.

JM: Yeah, absolutely. So CTA has been a client for quite some time, and they spun up a new innovation studio, I think recently in the last year or so, and they issued out a few problem statements, which we wanted to pursue and help them with, and one of those were how can CTA automatically detect people or large objects on the tracks to enable swift intervention. We immediately thought, ‘Wow, this is an awesome opportunity to leverage AI in a real way’, so we were very familiar with video analytics, and while STV ourselves, we don't develop our own video analytics software, we like to partner with a lot of other technology vendors that help us build end-to-end solutions, so we'll partner out and develop solutions around asset management, PMCM solutions, and then as well as this video analytics solution for CTA, so the goal was really answering their problem statement and running a pilot to see where we can help and how we can show increased performance in preventing a lot of those incidents on the tracks.

BL: So the announcement of the pilot came in February 2025. Where are we now, Joe, in terms of the pilot and how long is it going to last?

JM: Yeah, so the pilot should be over the next 12 months, I believe. All the approvals have gone through and it's really, they're at the start of deploying a lot of the systems now at the stations, so over the next course of a year or so, we should start getting the results back and fine tuning and tweaking things that we may need to get more efficient information collected on the field.

BL: And then now for this pilot, will they be used in any specific areas or just on those rail tracks?

JM: Right now, the focus is at the stations looking at the tracks preventing any objects on the tracks themselves, but there's a lot of opportunities for video analytics on construction sites, not just at the stations at rail points across their systems to see if there's any intrusions that can come up ahead beyond a track. We can look at maintenance for tracks, looking for overall track performance and seeing where there may be deficiencies over the long run, so there's definitely a lot of opportunities out there to help support CTA and other clients

BL: In terms of maintenance, I guess, how would that camera be able to determine or track potential maintenance that may be needed on the track?

JM: So you would need a different model to be trained on what it's looking for, so just like a person would go out and do an inspection on something, you would see, ‘Hey, there's a deterioration here’, a degradation of material, something could be broken or in disrepair so through images and other data that's collected, we can train a model on understanding what to be looking for, what constitutes a deficiency and an asset, and specifically a track asset, and then that be trained through the model, so that it can start identifying that through either image feeds, camera feeds and then be able to send those notifications out to the operating centers.

BL: So I've done a lot of traffic control interviews lately, and we've talked a lot about AI integration with that, and I've been asking my interviewees, I talked about this very early on in today's podcast, this technology is all of a sudden becoming so fast and so integrated in our everyday lives. Do you think there is a danger that want to start overlying on this technology?

JM: Yeah, that is an important question because while technology offers tremendous potential, the over reliance on it can create blind spots. One of the biggest risks is assuming that automation equals accuracy, so AI systems are only as good as the data they're trained on, and if that data is biased or incomplete, it can lead to flawed decisions. I mean, people make mistakes, so I wouldn't be surprised that software also makes those mistakes, so there's a tendency to treat technology, and this is kind of beyond just the video analytics, but as that silver bullet that's going to solve everything, when in reality, it should be part of a larger strategy that includes people, processes, and context, so if we lean too hard on tech without critical thinking, we risk eroding trusts, reducing human judgment and missing the nuance in complex problem solving, so in the public sector especially, we need to make sure that digital tools are transparent, equitable and accountable, and that's why we always emphasize the role of human oversight, stakeholder engagement and continuous improvement when implementing AI or any other advanced systems.

BL: So at the end of this 12 months, when the pilot with CTA concludes, let’s say that everything goes well on your side and on CTA’s side, where do you sort of envision this technology going? Obviously, do you feel like there could be a chance for expansion with CTA? You guys also work with a ton of different transit agencies overall, a lot of the different projects your team's been working on at our magazine, Mass Transit, do you think there could be an opportunity with maybe another agency, maybe this technology, I don't know, could it be a different technology, but it sort of expand on the use of this plywood with CTA?

JM: Yeah, so overall, STV is a leading professional services firm that plans designs and manages infrastructure projects across North America, so a lot of our clients are transit agencies. We do a lot of infrastructure, a lot of work with departments of transportation, and this pilot is not just a pilot for CTA, it's really a pilot for everyone that we can learn and gain insights from how we roll out the use of these new advanced tools, so this has, with its success, it has implications on how we can then roll that out to other transit agencies, other DOT’s, we can roll it out to really from a video analytics standpoint specifically, again, on those construction sites, there's AI solutions where we can run predictive analytics on asset management solutions, so there are huge implications on how AI could be used within the industry. And then us as a professional services firm, we're really looking at how we can share that knowledge, share the breadth of solutions and depth of specialties across our clientele, so that we can support the advancement of everyone.

BL: So most pilot projects last about 12 months, but how long did it take to go from the development stage of, hey, this could be happening to deployment?

JM: I'm not sure I have the details on every step of the way. I did initially partake in the first part of ideating around how we're going to approach this problem statement and then after that we went through a series of reviews and conversations with CTA, not only just proposing the idea, but then how does that idea actually come to fruition? How do we partner with a specific firm, with a specific technology vendor, get all the stakeholders in one room, agree to it, understand the implications of using new technologies and being on that cutting edge, and then ultimately, how do we implement it and roll it out into this 12 month plan? So there was a lot of ideation and planning and discussions that went into that over most likely the course of a year. It feels like time flies by really fast, but I want to say it was probably the course of a year to which now we're going into the next year looking forward to actually implementing this solution.

BL: Alright, Joe, well it was a pleasure. I appreciate you for taking time out of your busy schedule to join me today on the Infrastructure Technology podcast. 

JM: Yeah, anytime.

GJ: And we're back. That was Brandon's interview with, Brandon, do it one more time.

BL: Okay. It is with Joe Marchiafava, who is the STV Digital Development Manager.

GJ: Good old Joe. We love Joe. That was a really great interview. Ileana, what did you think?

IG: Going to bring back What's the Word? My word is potential. I'm very excited to see how this pilot goes because I could see it coming to my own nearby metroplex of Dallas. I could see it coming to anywhere. I've ridden a train, Boston, New York, Philly. I am really looking forward to and hoping that other cities see the potential of this pilot and this program. It sounds like it can be super helpful.

GJ: Yeah, if it works in Chicago, it can work just about anywhere, the two freak cities being like New York and LA, but yeah, absolutely. Okay, Brandon, excellent job. And now we're going to turn it over to Ileana. What do you got for us, Ileana?

IG: Today I'm going to talk to y'all. I'm going to do a Roads and Bridges Explained about something that you may think needs no explaining. If I said pothole, you two are pretty familiar with what a pothole is, correct?

GJ: Correct, yes.

IG: But do you know the average cost of pothole related repairs?

GJ: $10.

IG: Brandon, what's your guess?

BL: Well, since I was way off the episode ago about how many people ride MTA every single day. I imagine I'm going to be so far off. I'm going to go the opposite of Gavin just to play it safe here. I'm going to go $50.

GJ: Per pothole per pothole. I would say it's probably known in most cities. I would say it's probably like a $1000 a pothole.

IG: It is $406 according to AAA.

GJ: Okay.

IG: This is going to vary on the pothole shape and size, but across the U.S., you're shelling out almost $500 if you hit a pothole. My city of Denton, Texas, all of my community has inside jokes that there's potholes everywhere, and that they do construction around the potholes because they're part of the historic designation, our city, but I'm going to talk a little bit about how potholes form and then what we can do as drivers to protect ourselves against potholes.

GJ: Excellent.

IG: There's kind of a myth that potholes are only on specific types of roads or different types of climate, but they can be everywhere. Let's be real: Holes, they can show up anywhere. There's unpaved dirt to asphalt pavement. You can have a pothole in that road, they can be in parking lots, they can be in driveways, so it's not just something that you're looking out for as you're traveling down the street. They're not limited to a particular climate, like I said, so this could be cold weather, it can be hot weather, it can be down here in Texas, or it can be up there in Pittsburgh with you, Gavin. There's a couple things that go into the creation of a pothole. Weather is a big one, water, so it rains everywhere. We don't get a lot of snow down here in Texas, but when it snows, and it freezes, that serves as kind of just like what the rain does, but upgraded water gets into the ground, it saturates the pavement layers and then that's going to make the road susceptible to cracks. You have so many vehicles riding on that road that's just going to increase the wear and tear and so the rain or the water gets down in there, does the damage, but then the daily usage of the street amplifies that damage. There's a couple different ways that potholes are fixed, and that ranges from very temporary. You're putting a patch over it, but that doesn't fix the actual problem. It just makes it to where the pothole is not going to catch your car and do a bunch of damage, but you have to still fix the road. I feel like we see a lot of news articles where local people took it upon themselves to fix a pothole, and that's very cool, but that can't just be it. If you see the pothole patch warrior, you still need to push your city to go fix it.

GJ: Imagine fixing a pothole on your own. Oh my God.

IG: Have you seen those?

GJ: I have not seen that.

IG: Apparently people get very mad because the city doesn't do it, So hey go to Home Depot and get all of it for themselves. I've also seen people suggest that you spray paint something that's like an expletive or something inappropriate around the pothole, and then the city has to fix it, right?! Because there's a curse word or an unsavory drawing. I don't know how cities actually respond to those, but that's what I was…

GJ: I've heard about that, and I've seen that happen here in Pittsburgh, and it works though.

IG: It works. Okay.

GJ: It works. Yeah.

IG: Well, that is one way, but the best way to fill a pothole is either mill patch it, and so you take a few inches off the surface of the pothole, you replace the area with asphalt, you're filling the pothole in and if the pothole is super, super bad, you dig out, patch it and that's you take everything out around the hole, regrade the base, patch it with asphalt, makes a lot of sense. So do you all have any suggestions on if you're driving down the road you see a pothole, what are you going to do to try to avoid it? Not hit it, not get that damage.

GJ: Now here's what I do. I swerve without looking in any of my mirrors and just roll the dice. No, no, I'm joking. Don't. What I tend to do is I slow down, and I'll do a look into the mirror into my rear viewer side view, but most of the time what I do is I just hit the pothole, but I slow down. Of course, now there are some craters here in March and April of Pittsburgh, winter weather going into spring, or you don't want to hit those craters, it'll mess up your car, but in those cases, I do look to swerve when it's safe but most of the time I slow down and just deal with it. Hit the pothole.

IG: Gavin, that is exactly what you are supposed to do so gold star. There's some preventative measures. Keep your tires properly inflated. Don't be distracted. Look ahead. Watch out for puddles that may hide. Potholes. Keep a safe distance from other vehicles. So if you do need to swerve, you do need to stop, but exactly Gavin, if you can't avoid the pothole, don't just freak out and gun it and drive over that pothole. You slow down, then release the brakes and straighten your steering wheel before impact, and that does help minimize damage on your car so keep in mind you see a pothole coming, it's not always going to be safe to avoid it so keep calm, slow down, straighten your steering wheel and then just as best as you can, ride that pothole.

GJ: Brandon, have you ever been on a bus when it has hit like a massive crater pothole?

BL: It hurts.

GJ: Right?!

BL: That's the only way I can put it, especially the older buses. Luckily here, at least in my own hometown, Cleveland, GCRTA has upgraded their bus system, so we do have newer buses, but there's a lot of still order buses and when you're riding on that thing, and it hits a pothole, and again, viewers, I am 5’3, as we talked in season one, 160 pounds soaking wet. When it hits a pothole, I fly up in the air in my seat.

GJ: Yeah, I used to, my previous job, I used to take a bus to work and I would go along Fifth Avenue in Pittsburgh, and it was just pothole city. It was just so many potholes, and there were a couple that would just shake the entire bus on the way home full, just packed standing room only bus, and it would hit one of those potholes, and you would fall into people. It was rough. I think that with the buses, I think bus drivers, since it's not their car, it's not their bus, I think some of them just don't tend to slow down and just hit 'em.

BL: Well, even either that, or a lot of these buses now are designed differently, right?! Some buses are longer, some buses are smaller. Some now are using minivans, and so when you have those long, gigantic, what, 10-foot, 12-foot tall buses sometimes, and I guess this can be true for large trucks, you probably just can't even see or can't even feel 'em they're so big.

GJ: Yeah. It’s possible, too. Yeah, the drivers must see it differently, but yeah. Okay, what else you got for us, Ileana?

IG: That's all on potholes.

GJ: That is it on potholes, and folks, that is it on today's show. Thank you very much to Brandon with that interview with Joe. Joe, we love Joe, and we also want to, before we go, we want to thank you, the listener, and we also want to thank Endeavor B2B, our parent company. Thank you for listening. Join us next week when we are going to have another guest, another game and some more news that all revolves around technology and how it's shaping the transit and construction industries. For Ileana and Brandon, I'm Gavin Jenkins. Just want to say, goodbye.