Infrastructure Technology Podcast: Metrolink's wireless smart crossing technology

In this episode, the ITP team kicked things off with a new Buy or Sell game, discussing Michigan’s aging bridges and the urgent need for infrastructure investment. Then, Brandon Lewis interviews Michael Younin, Metrolink’s assistant director of signal systems design, on wireless crossing near-side station technology. After the interview, the hosts returned to Buy or Sell, this time debating emerging technology in construction. The episode wrapped with a tease of future episodes with audience emails.

Here is a transcript from the episode:

GJ: And welcome to the Infrastructure Technology Podcast. I'm Gavin Jenkins, senior managing editor of Roads and Bridges, and with me, as always, we have Brandon Lewis from Mass Transit. Associate editor. And we have Ileana Garnand, digital editor from Roads and Bridges. How are you two doing this morning?

BL: Good morning everyone. It is a Tuesday. It is podcast day, wherever you are listening, whether in North America or beyond. Very excited for this episode today.

IG: Happy Tuesday everyone. I have my mental monopoly money, and I'm very excited to play a new game on the ITP today.

GJ: Alright, yes, we are going to be playing a new game today. We have an interview coming up. Brandon, tell us a little bit about the interview. Who are we going to hear it from?

BL: So we are going to hear from Michael Younan, who is from Metrolink, and I'm going to tell you Gavin and Ileana, if you are ever frustrated about why you were sitting at a railroad track, waiting for a train to go by, and it takes forever for that train to get through, this technology is going to save you lot of time in the future.

GJ: That is awesome. I can't wait to hear this. I actually have had that feeling where the draw, the gate has not come down, but the lights are blinking, and I'm sitting there and I'm like, ‘I could make it. I could make it’, but you don't because I've seen so many movies where the car stalls over the tracks.

IG: Exactly. I'm always afraid of that happening even when there's no train coming. Just whenever I drive over railroads, I wonder, ‘Is this it? Is my car going to die?’

GJ: Yeah. Honestly, I think of all the ways to die, train is up there for me. I don't want to get hit by a train. Ever.

IG: I don't either. I think many of our listeners could agree.

GJ: Yeah, death by a train, near the top of the list. Bear. It's right up there with bear. Do not want to be attacked by a bear. Okay, alright, so before we get to that interview, we're going to play a little game. We're going to play a little game of buy or sell. Now, dear listeners, if you are familiar with the television program, Pardon the Interruption, then this game will be familiar to you because that's where I got the idea, and I'm a huge PTI fan. I love, I forget their name, Wilbon. I love Wilbon and Kornheiser. I can't believe I totally blanked on their names. I've been watching them since 2002. Okay, but I love PTI, and we're going to play, Buy or Sell, so here's how it's played. I'm going to throw out something that's in the news, and if you buy it, that means you are agreeing with it. If you sell it, that means you're not on board. Are you two ready to play Buy or Sell?

BL: Yes sir.

GJ: So this is going to be something dealing with Michigan's aging bridges. The Michigan Department of Transportation warns that over 100 state truck line bridges could be closed by 2035, affecting around 1.8 million drivers daily If funding isn't secured, so should we buy, meaning urgent investment and repair is justified, or sell, meaning we're setting ourselves up for a funding crisis down the line. So here's a little backstory. Roughly two thirds of Michigan's bridges have outlived their original lifespan. The M69 Bridge over the Menominee River built in 1931 is in poor condition but vital for tourism, forestry and daily commutes in the upper peninsula. Without new funding MDOT projects a sharp drop in reconstruction budgets from 495 million to 222 million annually, which could result in 2,800 fewer construction jobs by 2026, declining road quality statewide, so without intervention, nearly half of state routes carrying over half of traffic and 80% of commercial traffic will fall into poor condition by the end of the decade. So buy or sell, Brandon?

BL: Yeah, I think I'm going to buy this. With bridges, we know they are very important across the country. Thousands of cars, buses, vehicles, use them every day for travel, and we know, as we've talked about here on the podcast, that while a lot of bridges obviously are in older condition, the new ones that are being built or being reconstructed right now are using technology to make them last for decades and decades and decades and the more bridges that we update across the country, the more safe we will feel while traveling on the road.

GJ: Alright, Ileana, what do you think?

IG: I have to agree. It's a no brainer. I'm buying. Bridges aren't just pretty things to look at, and this isn't just numbers. Bridges are lifelines. You mentioned that this is going to hurt people's jobs. People use bridges to get to work, get to school to see their family on the other side of the city, but also most important is that if something really unfortunately falls through the cracks, and there's an accident because there's an old bridge that something happens, I think that's completely unacceptable. So always, always better safe than sorry.

GJ: Alright, so I have one more Buy or Sell, but first, let's all agree that urgent action is needed in Michigan, and it must come with structural reform because we don't want to risk repeating cycles of bridges falling in disrepair. Okay, we have one more Buy or Sell to go over and play, but first, we're going to go to the interview with Brandon Lewis, so we'll see you after the interview.

BL: Welcome back to the Infrastructure Technology Podcast. I am Brandon Lewis, the associate editor of Mass Transit magazine, and I am here today with Metrolink Assistant Director of Signal Systems Design Michael Younin. Michael, welcome to the ITP.

MY: Hey, Brandonn, thank you for having me.

BL: Well thank you, and today, we're going to be talking about many multiple crossing upgrades that Metrolink has made within their stations, and as I mentioned here off the top, you guys have upgraded these multiple crossings with this wireless crossing, near sign station stop technology, and so the first question for you is, what does this technology actually do, Michael?

MY: Brandon, can I start with asking a simple question? Have you ever been stuck at a railroad crossing waiting for a train that never seemed to come?

BL: Yes.

MY: It's frustrating, sometimes confusing. That's where Metrolink smart crossing technology, or WCNSS, comes in. WCNSS is short for wireless crossing near side a station. It's a GPS based technology that enhances the operation of rail rate crossings near train stations by providing the train the ability to communicate directly with crossings to prevent unnecessary gate activations. We can start talking first about how crossing works at a conventional passenger train stop.

BL: Yes, go ahead.

MY: When a train approaches the station, crosses downstream, goes just pass the station, it predicts train movement and automatically activates. They don't know if the train is stopping at the station or passing through, so gates go down, bell rings and lights flash even if the train is just pulling into the station. Then, after the train stops and passengers exit, the gates activate once again as a train departs. That's two activations for one train, causing delays, confusion and also wear on equipment. Now, with smart technology, the train can communicate its intent to stop at the station. This establish a wireless station with a crossing, which inhibit the crossing from activating while the train is approaching the station and coming to a stop.

BL: How does the crossing and the train, like that technology, how does it communicate and interact with each other? Is there something on the train that triggers the railroad technology?

MY: Yes, the positive train control system, in case you're not familiar with the positive train control system, PTC is a processor based, communication based train control system designated to prevent train accidents. It monitors the train movement automatically and intervenes when needed by slowing down or stopping the train to avoid collision and development. The deputy CSS network is utilizing the positive train infrastructure and communication to establish a communication between the train and the crossings. When the train on port positive train system actually places a zero mph target, kind of virtual root fence at the crossings, when PTC is established, to ensure trains do not enter the crossing until it's ready. Once the train is through, before departing, the engineer manually transmits a dual tone, multi frequency code to the downstream crossing controller. This code initiates gait activation sequence. By the time the train begins to move, the gates are already fully horizontal, eliminating the need for trains to creep out of the station or pause while waiting for gate descents. This is smart coordination only activates crossings when truly needed, which would use the gate downtime near stations, reduce delays and avoid confusion for drivers and pedestrians and also reduce train dwelling time at a station.

BL: Michael, let’s talk then about how the technology was developed

MY: Starting in 2020, as Metrolink prepared to launch the 9-mile service extension between the San Bernardino and Redlands, our team took advantage of the available time before service launches to innovate, test and refine WCNSS technology. The smart crossing technology leveraged existing positive train control infrastructure to achieve wireless crossing inhibit function. Through positive train control. the train was able to determine a specific train schedule and identify which crossings are linked to a specific station. WCNSS was initially designed for the Arrow Line corridor and was successfully deployed at seven crossings since the line began service in October 2022. Following that success, our next challenge was scaling the technology across all seven Metrolink service lines without disrupting train operation. We began with a ballot installation at Del Obispo street crossing in San Juan Capistrano. From there, we rolled out a strategic plan to install smart crossing at one crossing in each one of the five county member agencies that govern our service. This phased approach allowed us to boost safety and reliability systemwide while keeping training running smoothly. In June of 2024, the Del Obispo street crossing was officially upgraded over the past year. This upgrade has spared the local community a little over 1,500 unnecessary crossing activation and saved about 36 hours of crossing gate downtime.

BL: Now with this update, what did that update entail?

MY: The update including implementing the smart crossing technology at Del Obispo.

BL: Okay, I thought you meant like an update to the actual technology itself,

MY: Just adding the smart technology to the crossing.

BL: I got you.

MY: So earlier in February, WCNSS was live at Juniper Avenue crossing in Fontana, San Bernardino County. There, the system is saving up to two minutes of gate downtime per each wireless session, and we're expecting to save over 120 hours of gate downtime annually. Since then, we have expanded to Columbia Avenue on Riverside County and Moore Park Avenue in Ventura County. Currently, work is underway in Los Angeles County at Ramona Avenue Crossing near PO Park Station on the San Bernardino line. Each WCNSS installation brings us one step closer to a safer and more efficient rail network across southern California.

BL: Now, let's talk about some of the challenges about the technology during the installation stage because as you mentioned, again, this technology was launched in 2022, but it's been slowly improving and implemented in stations over time. What has been some of the challenges with the technology?

MY: So WCNSS systems are pricelessly engineered to each location and requires an extensive performance validation, first in the lab, then in the field, with rail train and life operation prior to deployment. Before entering the testing phase, we established multiple communication misses between trained and crossings. In some cases, this involves in installing positive train control towers that requires additional environmental clearance. While this process is time intensive, we are fortunate to collaborate with a great team of engineers and railroad committed to streamlining workflows and improving deployment efficiency. Currently, we are working on progressing on two separate WCNSS projects at Ramona Avenue and Pacific Avenue Crossings, both located near Baldwin Park Station and Los Angeles County. The team is actively coordinating effort to streamline implementation, with a goal of completing both installations by the end of 2025.

BL: So thanks for that, Michael. So now, let's talk about any plans for potential expansion for this technology for southern California.

MY: Of course. Metrolink is working to deploy wireless crossing technology at 52 grade crossings located within half a mile of a station along its 545 miles of service lines. This crossing is spanning our six county network and are eligible for smart crossing upgrades. So far, we have secured funding for 12 locations with four crossing already in service and plans to activate eight additional locations by the end of 2026. At this time, we're actively pursuing additional funding to expand this technology to all remaining eligible sites. Upgrading these crossings, WCNSS does not just ease traffic congestions, it also makes our rail systems safer by reducing gateway time and discouraging risky behaviors from drivers and pedestrians who might try to bypass the lower gate. We are creating a safer environment for everybody. As we prepare for major global events like the 2026 FIFA World Cup in Los Angeles and the upcoming Olympics, this initiative underscores Metrolink’s commitment to modernizing rail safety and delivering a smoother and more secure experience for passengers and communities across southern California.

BL: What would be, I know you mentioned there, obviously we know the FIFA World Cup is going to be there in 2026. You have the Olympic Games in 2028. Is there a timeline? I know you mentioned potentially end of 2026. Is that like the estimated timeline for when all this new technology could be implemented?

MY: We're making plans to complete 12 locations by the end of 2026, and we only have secured funding for only 12 locations. Once we secure additional funds, we will immediately start making plans to complete implementation as soon as possible.

BL: Well, let's talk about the funding because you guys mostly got the funding from a Consolidated Rail Infrastructure and Safety Improvement, also known as the CRISI grant from the Federal Railroad Administration. Can you talk a little bit about that process?

MY: Deploying advanced rail technology, like the wireless crossing technology, requires more than engineering. It demands strategic funding and regulatory support. That's where the Federal Railroad Administration and its CRISI program comes in. The FRA periodically issues a notice of funding opportunity under the Consolidated Rail Infrastructure and Safety Improvement (CRISI) program. This notice of funding opportunity invites all rail agencies to submit proposals for projects that enhance safety efficiency and infrastructure reliability. Metrolink responded to these opportunities by submitting a detailed application focusing on WCNSS deployment. One of the key success stories highlighted in our application was a Redlands extension of the Arrow service, where WCNSS technology was successfully deployed and results showed a significant reduction in delays for roadway users, decreasing confusion and risky driver behaviors at crossings and shown clear evidence of improving safety and operational efficiency. These outcomes helped Metrolink secure multiple grants to continue expanding wireless crossing across its network. Improving safety is a core objective of the CRISI program, and the FRA has been a consistent partner in supporting Metrolink’s efforts with continuing funding. Metrolink is working to deploy WCNSS at additional crossings system-wide, including complex multi operator corridors.

BL: Our theme today has been all about obviously railroad crossing safety, and you've talked about how many minutes and how much time this is saving people, and think about this, it's in an area of southern California, which is obviously a very heavily congested area. I am not aware, and I could be wrong, but I am not aware of any other agencies, not even just in California, but just North America wide who are really using this technology on an everyday basis. Would it be your hope or do you expect maybe some agencies to follow the Metrolink model and have this sort of be the new normal for transit and rail going forward?

MY: Yes, the wireless crossing near side station technology was specifically developed by Metrolink. Other agencies here are approaching the same technology and coming with their different version of wireless crossings., so we should see some different versions of wireless crossing with other passenger rail services. While wireless crossing near sided station was originally developed for Metrolink, Metrolink is now the only passenger rail service operating along its corridor Amtrak Pacific Surfliner is an example of another passenger rail service which operates along the LOSSAN corridor, Los Angeles – San Diego – San Luis Obispo. Integrating WCNSS along multiple operators presents additional challenges. However, in September 2024, we made significant strides by successfully implementing WCNSS on Amtrak’s captive fleet, which was dedicated to the Los Angeles Ocean side corridor. This fleet operates under consistent conditions, making it ideal for the additional integration. We're continuing to work closely with Amtrak to develop long-term solutions for integrating WCNSS across our system-wide fleet, expanding smart crossing technology, reflecting Metrolink’s ongoing commitment to enhancing safety and efficiency for the community we serve.

BL: Michael Younin from Metrolink. He is their assistant director of signal systems design, and he's been in that position since April, 2024. He's been at Metrolink in various positions since 2022, and before that, he held various roles at Union Pacific Railroad. Michael, once again, thank you so much for joining me today on the Infrastructure Technology Podcast.

MY: Thank you Brandon for having me.

GJ: Alright, we're back. That was Brandon's interview with Michael Younin from Metrolink. What a great interview. What did you think, Ileana?

IG: I thought it was super informative, so I do have a lot of trains that run through my town. It's more commercial than passenger, but that's almost even more frustrating when I'm trying to get somewhere, and I'm stuck behind a train, and I see it's just full of coal or whatever. Yeah. So I'm glad that when I'm in the moment, and I'm getting a little angry, I can put some context to it and actually maybe use a tool to explain why this is happening and help me time things out better.

GJ: Yeah, absolutely. Brandon, what were your takeaways?

BL: Yeah, I think the biggest thing for me is obviously this technology that Metrolink has developed has worked in California, but as Michael mentioned, they are working with other transit agencies to use this technology across the U.S., so we could be seeing this technology. Gavin in your hometown in Pittsburgh, and Ileana, in Texas as well, hopefully relatively soon here within the next few years.

GJ: Absolutely. Okay, well great interview. Now, let's go back to our Buy or Sell matchup. So, so far Brandon and Ileana have agreed, but now we're going to get into our bread and butter, technology. So emerging tech in construction from AI and robotics to digital twins and 3D printing. Does this wave of innovation deserve a buy, meaning it is transforming efficiency and safety, or a sell that it is overhyped and inaccessible. So, before we dive in and get your reads, let me just say that AI is revolutionizing project management optimization, specifically schedules, budgets and risk. Well, robotics and autonomous equipment. They're speeding, construction, digital twins and BIM enable real-time monitoring and simulation., so buy or sell tech in construction. Brandon, what say you?

BL: I mean, here's how I look at it. I think we should all buy it because I think it's coming, and I don't think that there's anything that we can do to stop it. I think AI is, I've been saying this over the past couple of weeks, to not only coworkers here at Endeavor B2B, but friends and family as well. I think AI is 22nd century technology that is here now, and I think it has come faster than we all ever expected it to, and I think the wave is just going to keep on coming, and I do think that there's going to be innovation that is going to make our lives so much safer, so much faster than we have ever thought of just because of things that AI hasn't even thought of yet that could be developed like that.

GJ: Okay. Ileana, do you agree or disagree?

IG: So this is where we split hairs. I am a tentative sell. I'm a sell with a caveat. I think this is not a universal buy there. There's promise there. Some of this technology, I can absolutely see how it's helpful, how it's vital, but adoption varies. Wildly small contractors and smaller communities can't afford these systems and sometimes I think they don't need them more than they need. We went to Public Works Expo last month, Gavin, and we talked to Public Works employees who were saying they just need a mechanic to fix their equipment so some of these communities, they don't need AI, they need what we see as basic tech.

GJ: Yeah, it’s going to create technology. It’s going to really create the have and have nots in the construction industry, in the public works field, even in transportation. You're going to see rural, small town America just being stuck in the early 20th, 21st century, 1990s, late 20th century, while urban areas are going to be looking like a blade runner. It's crazy.

IG: Exactly, so I think in urban areas where they could afford it, where it can really make a difference, sure, I think I'm okay, I'll buy it, but in smaller communities, we need to focus on higher priorities first.

GJ: Yeah, absolutely. Personally, I'm a hard sell. I think I'm terrified of AI. I think that it's going to kill us all. Not really, I'm being hyperbolic. It's not going to kill us all, but I fear the tech oligarchs. Peter Thiel couldn't even say that he thought humanity should survive, and I don't trust Zuckerberg or Elon Musk, those guys, they're all Lex Luther, every single one of them. So yeah, no, I definitely, I understand. Brandon, I understand your optimism and your excitement. It can make life so much easier. I just think that there's a lot of bumps in the road before we get to the AI utopia and any wrong turn could turn into terminator.

BL: Is it? I agree with you both. The problem is I would not have even suspected myself to even be talking about AI in 2025. I mean, who knew that from January to July basically, and this year Google's algorithm completely changed the point where people aren't scrolling anymore, they're just looking at the first prompt. Because when you Google something, the first thing that comes up now is AI.

GJ: Right.

BL: I mean, this is something that we weren't even talking about a year ago so think about how fast that has come and think about how fast technology develops and where we're going to be at in two, three years. We could all be in a completely different space, media wise, transportation wise, bridge wise. It is all coming so fast.

GJ: No, you're absolutely right. I think that, I was watching, I was on Instagram the other day, and I saw a 3D house being built with concrete. It was wild, and it was just like this machine that was pouring concrete without any humans around, and it was building a house, and I mean if that's possible, roads and bridges construction can completely change.

IG: It's that fast innovation though. That's why I am a bit of a sell. I want to see it proven a little bit more. I'm afraid that some of this tech is not fully developed well, so I am kind of on the side of Gavin. I am afraid that the robots are going to turn on us.

GJ: We need guardrails.

BL: Here's the question, though. Do these people developing the technology, do they care about the guardrails or are they just rolling it out, be like, ‘No, that's perfect. Here we go. It's being developed’. Like you said, Gavin, they're already pouring concrete for 3D houses. It's like, are we sure this is going to hold up? And some people are like, ‘I don't care. I'm going’.

IG: They absolutely do not care I think.

GJ: They care about the bottom line, and it's like Jurassic Park. They're not thinking about what they should do. They're thinking about what they can do because of the technology, and the technology is, it's wild and fascinating for sure. Okay, well that was a great discussion. I'm sure readers will like to tune in next time to hear us, especially me being more scared about the coming technology, but that is it for today's show. We got to thank some people. Brandon, who should we thank?

BL: We should thank our company, Endeavor B2B, aka Endeavor Business Media.

GJ: Okay, and we should also thank you, our listeners, and Ileana, we have an email address, don't we? Shouldn't people listening be writing in?

IG: We do, especially if you do not agree with our buy and sell takes. We want to hear it. Just be nice, please by emailing us at [email protected], and that is the number two. Let us know if you agree. Send us, if you listen to our previous episodes, send us some kooky history you want us to talk about. Tell us what you think about stuff in the news or just say hi. We'd love to hear from you.

GJ: We've been getting some emails we're going to have. In the next show, we're going to have some emails I'm going to read on the air, and we'll discuss them., but until then, I'm Gavin Jenkins. He's Brandon Lewis and also Ileana Garnand, and we'll see you next time on the ITP. Goodbye.