Infrastructure Technology Podcast: City of Sacramento, SacRT and Hayden AI team up on bike lane enforcement pilot

Season 2 of the Infrastructure Technology Podcast launches with new co-host, Roads and Bridges Digital Editor Ileana Garnand, and a new weekly format. The hosts play a fun game of Two Truths and a Lie before Brandon Lewis, associate editor of Mass Transit magazine, interviews representatives from Hayden AI, the city of Sacramento and SacRT about their automated bus lane enforcement program, which equips buses with AI-powered cameras to detect illegal parking in bus lanes and bus stops. The episode closes with Ileana’s quirky history lesson on the 1919 Great Rooster Auction, where world leaders and celebrities donated roosters to help fund a vital bridge.

Below is a transcript from the episode:

GJ: Welcome to the Infrastructure Technology Podcast. I'm Gavin Jenkins, senior managing editor of Roads and Bridges, and with me is Digital Editor of Roads and Bridges, Ileana Garnand, and the man, the myth, the legend, Associate Editor of Mass Transit Magazine, Brandon Lewis.

BL: It is podcast day. It is a Tuesday. We are back. I told all of you at the end of Season 1 that the day after Labor Day, savior your leftovers because ITP Season 2 would be here, and here we are.

GJ: Brandon. Brandon, Brandon, you've been waiting for this day all summer long. Did you have a good summer?

BL: I did. It was a very interesting summer weather wise where I'm at in Cleveland, Ohio. A lot of rain early June, very hot July. But you know what they say, kids are back in school. Football is right around the corner. And that means the ITP is back, baby!

GJ: It is, it is. And we have a new co-host with us. Ileana, tell our listeners a little bit about yourself.

IG: Hello everyone. So glad to be here. I am the digital editor for Roads and Bridges, born and raised in Denton, Texas.

GJ: You are our co-host, but you're also our producer. You're going to be editing the audio, you edit video. You also have a background in investigative journalism, so if you listeners, if you get on Ileana’s bad side, Ileana will investigate you and will publish an expose. Not really, I'm just kidding. But before we begin, Brandon, I have to ask you about something. We haven't talked about this. I'm popping this on you on air. Hulk Hogan passed away, and you're a big professional wrestling fan and this must've been a tragic loss for you.

BL: Yeah, so Gavin you probably don't even know about this either, but the day after he passed away, WWE SmackDown was in Cleveland, and I was there in the arena when they did the tribute to Hulk Hogan, and it was the most surreal experience I've ever been a part of. Usually when you enter in one of those arenas, everybody's going crazy, yelling, screaming. It was not that night. It was very sentimental. And yeah, the business would not be where it's at today without Hulk Hogan.

GJ: Somber, somber. There is a picture out there, it exists, of a young Gavin, maybe five years old, wearing just tons of Hulkster gear from the mid 1980s, like a Hulkster headband, a Hulkster T-shirt, and I think I'm holding Hulkster dumbbells as well, and the picture exists. I don't know where it is. It's somewhere at my mom's. The viewers will never see it, but it exists. Okay, so let's get started. A couple of things. We're going to have a really great interview from Brandon where he interviewed three people. He did the trifecta, interviewing three people at the same time, and we'll let Brandon talk about that in just a moment, but first, I want to just tell you, our listeners, that we are going to be doing some new things here in Season 2. We're going to be playing games, we're going to be discussing news, and we're going to start off with a little game that I've prepared for everyone. We're going to play a little round of Two Truths and a Lie: ITP Edition, Brandon, Ileana, are you ready to play Two Truths and a Lie?

BL: Yes, sir.

IG: Absolutely.

GJ: So Two Truths and a Lie. I have four questions for you guys and the first two questions are based off of Season 1 of the ITP, and I had ChatGPT give me a little bit of help with this. I asked ChatGPT to give me questions based off of Season 1, and this first one is from episode one, our first episode ever. Here we go. Item number one: Gary Smith said that before the pandemic, supply chain was often called physical distribution. Item number two: Gary Smith joked that his wife didn't understand his job until COVID-19 disrupted global supply chains. And item number three: He predicted that supply chains would become completely automated by 2022. What is the lie of those three items?

BL: I believe the lie is item number three.

GJ: Okay. Alright. And Ileana, what do you think?

IG: I am actually going to guess the lie is number one, and this could be completely incorrect. I feel like I've heard it called supply chain before the pandemic.

GJ: Okay, Brandon is correct. The last one is the lie. Alright, let's go to number two. Item number one: This is from episode four, by the way. Stacey Matlin described New York City's Transit as choreographed chaos. Item number two: Mark Pittman discussed using AI to improve roadway maintenance and traffic operations. Item number three: They claim that New York City's Transit Tech Lab eliminated all subway delays in 2024. Ileana, which one of those is the lie?

IG: I'm thinking the third one is the lie.

GJ: Okay. Alright. And Brandon, what do you think?

BL: I did this interview with Stacey, and I know for a fact number one is true. I remember that quote directly. That was one of my favorite moments from that interview, so I am going to agree with Ileana here. I believe number three is the lie.

GJ: Okay, number three is the lie. You guys are correct. I need to switch this up because ChatGPT always makes number three the lie. Alright, I'm going to go to some ones that I did on my own. No more ChatGPT. Okay, these are more focused on Roads and Bridges. Okay, the Golden Gate Bridge is painted a color called Sunset Orange. Item number two: The Eiffel Tower was originally intended to be a temporary structure. Item number three: The Brooklyn Bridge was the first steel wire suspension bridge in the world. Which one of those is the lie?

BL: The world is throwing me off. I don't know if that's intentional or not. I feel like it's one or three. I'm going to take a shot.

GJ: Well, hold on. I would like to know, are you an expert on the Eiffel Tower?

BL: No, but I feel like I've heard that before somewhere for some odd reason. I don't know why. I feel like that's some fun fact they give you in school about history. I could be totally wrong. I'll take a shot in the dark and say number one.

IG: I'm going to agree with Brandon.

GJ: Look at the brain on Brett for both of you. You are correct. Number one, the color of the Golden Gate bridge is actually called International Orange. Not Sunset Orange though. Sunset Orange. Makes tons of sense. What's international Orange? I don't get that, but okay.

IG: Do you see the bridge as orange? To me, it's more red.

GJ: I agree. It looks like the red that is the San Francisco 49ers color of red.

BL: That's exactly what I was going to say.

GJ: Yeah. Okay, now quick tangent. Speaking of San Francisco and that bridge, I was alive in 1989 and watching the World Series when the earthquake hit, And that was a chaotic, scary moment because one second, I'm sitting next to my grandpa watching Al Michaels talk about the World Series and then the screen just goes black and that massive earthquake hit. it's crazy stuff. Alright, last one that we're going to do. Oh, I'm going to butcher this, guys. Japan’s Shinkansen trains first began service in the 1950s is item number one. Item number two: The London Underground is the oldest subway system in the world. Item number three: the Paris Metro has more stations than the New York City subway. So we're going rail. We're going rail international for this question.

BL: I feel like I've heard number two before, again as some sort of fact somewhere. Maybe somebody from Mass Transit’s 40 Under 40 has said it before because a lot of people for our 40 Under 40 Program talk about that one system all the time. I feel like Paris would have more stations than the MTA for some reason, just because I feel like international transit over there is so huge. Are you going to really make number one the lie again though? That's where I'm sort of back and forth, but I know nothing about Japan, so that's my best guess. Number one's going to be the lie.

IG: I do feel like I'm at a disadvantage here. I know way less about Mass Transit than Brandon, but I'm going to believe his knowledge and research, but for some reason, I'm thinking New York has a lot of stops. I've been on that subway, I've seen the rats. I think Paris has its own rats though. I'm going to go with three. I think that's the lie.

GJ: Okay. Alright, Brandon is correct. Number one is the lie. Japan's Shinkansen trains began in 1964, not the 1950s. I was afraid to do that one just because I knew that I was going to butcher that pronunciation of the Japanese trains, but that is Two Truths and a Lie. Excellent job for both of you. Brandon, I think you were a perfect four for four.

BL: Wow, and I was nervous about three of 'em.

GJ: Well, that's why we call you the man, the myth and the legend. You're very smart, and while we're on your brilliance, why don't you tell us about the interview we're about to hear.

BL: Yeah, absolutely. So Gavin, as you said at the start of the program today, I did a trifecta for the first time in ITP show history. It was me and not one, not two, but three, wonderful guests. I had on Charley Territo, who is Hayden AI's chief growth officer, Staci Hovermale, who is the city of Sacramento's parking manager, and Lisa Hinz, who's the vice president of SacRT’s, security, safety and customer satisfaction divisions, and what we talked about is the fact that the city of Sacramento, California, and SacRT, they launched this automatic bike lane enforcement and the technology comes from machine AI, And what this technology does is it was installed on transit buses to target illegal parking in bike lanes, and they explained really how this technology works and how it is making taking the bus in the city of Sacramento with SacRT safer, and I can't wait for you guys to hear this interview.

GJ: Alright, well let's just get into it now.

BL: I am here today with three guests, one from the city of Sacramento, one from Hayden AI and one from SacRT. We're going to be talking today about automated bike lane enforcement, but let me first introduce our guests. First we have Charlie from Hayden AI.

CT: Thanks for having me today, Brandon, great to be here.

BL: And we have Stacy from the city of Sacramento.

SH: Hi Brandon, thanks for having me. Staci Hovermale, parking manager with the city of Sacramento.

BL: And we have Lisa from SacRT.

LH: Hi, I am Lisa Hines with Sacramento Regional Transit. Thanks for having me, Brandon. I'm the vice president of safety, security, customer satisfaction and facilities.

BL: Thanks to all of you for being here today. This is a first for me in the ITP where I am having more than three guests in one interview, so we're going to try to get all you guys in today, and as I mentioned at the top, the city of Sacramento and SacRT, you guys have launched automated bike lane enforcement. Now, the technology from Hayden AI, which by the way we're going to get to here in a little bit, but that was installed on transit buses to target illegal parking and bike lanes. So Lisa, I'm going to go ahead and start with you. How did this partnership start?

LH: Sure. I forgot to mention I'm also the chief of safety at SacRT, and I was looking for a product to help us with our bus stops, and I was specifically originally looking for a tool that would tell us if our bus stops are broken or damaged, and I came across Hayden AI at an APTA, American Public Transportation Association, conference, and I learned that they had this AI product that could tell us if we had a problem at our bus stops, and so we did about a 70-day pilot project with Hayden AI, and boy, we had a very big problem, so that's how we started the relationship with Hayden AI.

BL: And then Stacy, I'm going to move to you.

SH: Sure. So just to back that up a little bit, I mean we are really able to do this through Assembly Bill 361. That is what gives cities the ability to use automated enforcement to enforce bike lanes and bus stops. When we heard that Sacramento Regional Transit was piloting this program, we were obviously intrigued. I mean, this is what we do every day. We enforce parking violations. In the last five years, we've issued nearly 3000 bike lane violations in the city of Sacramento, and when we saw the level of bus zone violations in just the short pilot period, we knew that this is a great partnership to help keep our streets safe for pedestrians and all roadway users. At the end of the day, it's all about safety, and although we issue tickets, this allows us to do it much more effectively and efficiently.

BL: Excellent. So now let's get into a little bit about how this program actually works, and Charlie, for that, I'm going to turn it over to you.

CT: Great, thanks Brandon. I really appreciate it. Hayden AI has what's called, what we call a vision-based AI system. Our system consists of really four key components: A context camera, a license plate, a recognition camera, an antenna and a compute box, and that compute box is really the brains behind our system and allows us to do processing right on board the bus and very quickly identify whether or not a violation occurred. The way our system works in Sacramento is that our systems are installed on SacRT buses and working in conjunction with SacRT and the city of Sacramento, and we identify different routes where we're enforcing bus stop and bike lanes. From there, the systems, when the buses are on those specific routes, are identifying events. Those events are then sent to the city of Sacramento's violation processor and using the tools that we provide, the city of Sacramento and their parking enforcement officers decide whether or not a violation should be issued. I think overall it's a pretty simple process. Routes are annotated, cameras are installed, cameras identify events. Events are sent for review. Once approved, those events are then turned into violations and those violations are then sent to the registered owner, where they're then enforced by the city of Sacramento, but they’re any number of steps in the interim that make this a very complex program, but one that I think will bring tremendous benefit to not only SacRT, but the city of Sacramento.

BL: Now, anybody can answer this next question. I want to sort of leave it open to any of you guys that feel like that you can give the best answer, but for the violations, what are sort of the stages of evaluations? Are they the same, and then how are they determined?

SH: So can I jump in? So at the city of Sacramento, we're sent all of the data, and we have a parking enforcement officer that reviews the data to determine if a violation has occurred. If a violation has occurred, then they issue a parking citation. The citation gets sent to the registered owner through mail, and it's processed just like any of our other parking violations in the city of Sacramento. They have 21 days to pay or contest. One thing I just wanted to add is that through this process, we have built in a 60- day warning period, so with the bus zone violations and with the bike lane violations, we issued warnings for 60 days before we ever issue a live citation, so we really want to get the community to understand that this isn't about riding the ticket, it's about changing driver behavior.

BL: Gotcha, and have you felt like, I know obviously the pilot has only been launched for a little bit here, but in terms of that driver behavior, have we seen any impact on that?

SH: Yeah, so I actually just got an update right now with the bike lane and bus lane violations. So we started with bike lane warnings on April 14th, and we've issued 394 warnings in that short amount of time, and we started with the bus zone violations in February of this year, and we have issued nearly 8,000 violations, so we are getting violations and warnings out there to people to make it very clear that you will be cited if you parked in these spots.

LH: Brandon, I want to further answer that question. I think it's too early in the process for us to see a real change. Like Stacey mentioned, it was just started in February with the citations, so we're in that learning curve process right now, and I don't know when the tipping point will hit or if people really get the point that they're going to get a citation via our buses and through the city of Sacramento, but there will be a point where that learning curve, we'll see a sharp change, but we're just not there yet.

BL: Excellent. Now Charlie, what about the actual technology that goes in here with Hayden AI on these buses?

CT: Thanks, Brandon. That's a great question. I think what we do with our system is really why it is we're able to automate this process. We have a very unique system that is on a moving vehicle. So unlike a fixed camera system that's mounted on our pole, I think one of the first things about our system is that it's on a moving vehicle, and so from a location standpoint, it has to be very accurate, and so we use a mix of four different technologies to understand where our vehicle is or where that system is at any given time. G-N-S-S-G-P-S, WiFi and cellular technology is all used to give us what we like to say is about 50 centimeter accuracy of our systems. Another, I think key element of the system, is how we understand where the vehicles are and how we annotate the roads. We don't take an existing map and annotate that. We actually use our technology and our context camera to build a map of all of the roads and the routes that we're enforcing in the city of Sacramento and then our team works with the SacRT team and the team from the city of Sacramento to annotate that map and tell our system what's important on those maps. Some maps, it's important to know where the restaurants are. Other maps, it's important to know where are the rivers on our map. It's important to know where are the bus stops and where are the bike lanes. And so, we build maps that tell our system where it should be looking for vehicles parked illegally, and then I think that the last and most important part of our system is really that our system works behind the windshield of the bus, and so it's almost impervious to weather conditions because it's mounted below the wiper line, and it's able to operate with a high level of accuracy both during the day and at night, and that's something that's very important when you're trying to show that enforcement is something that occurs 24 7.

BL: Absolutely. Now, I know that we talked about a little bit about how the data, it is not really out there yet, right?! But do you guys feel that overall violations may have occurred more during the day at night, even on both sides?

CT: I think typically what we see for it really varies by location. In some of the downtown areas, we may see more violations during the day in some of the more neighborhood locations. Maybe we see more violations in the evening and at night. Over time, we'll be able to provide some very comprehensive reporting for the agency and for the city, so that they'll be able to see for themselves where some of these hotspots are. They can see for themselves where some of the bigger problem areas are and maybe look and see if there are other types of ways that they can impact this beyond just issuing violations. We like to talk about a three legged stool here that education, engineering and enforcement are really all part of the equation and the part that we can offer is the enforcement, but we can also offer data that can be used to potentially impact the education or the engineering of stops or bike lanes or other zones to ensure that we have as safe of roads as possible for all users in the city of Sacramento.

BL: And then this is going to be more for Staci and Lisa. At this time here, we're recording in May of 2025. This episode is probably going to air, like I said in the fall, but is there any plan for potential expansion of the program down the line?

LH: I think from a SacRT perspective, we wanted to just roll out the program, see how effective it is. We have it on 100 buses right now. It's only, like you mentioned Brandon, within the city of Sacramento, but based upon the data that we're seeing and the seamless partnership, the four-way partnership we have between the city and Hayden and Duncan Solutions, who's a partner to the city, I don't see any reason that it wouldn't happen, that we would continue to roll it out. As a matter of fact, I get asked pretty frequently for our other sister jurisdictions. Are we going to roll it out to them? So I think it's a logical next step.

SH: I completely agree. I think we're still very early in this project, but what we've seen so far is showing us that it is working, and expansion is, I would say, definitely a possibility moving forward.

BL: Staci, Charlie, Lisa, thank you all so much today for joining me on the Infrastructure Technology Podcast.

GJ: And welcome back. That was Brandon Lewis's interview talking about everything Sacramento. Okay, Brandon, looking back on that interview, what are your takeaways?

BL: Yeah, I think the biggest thing, and Gavin, I know in Season 1 we talked about how fearful you are of AI and over the summer I have become more fearful of AI than I ever thought I've ever been, and as fearful as we are about AI, there are some really good things about AI and this program is one of those. So I thought one of the biggest takeaways with this interview was when they talk about essentially how this process works, is that the technology from AI can simply capture a short video and a photo of a vehicle's license plate that they are in these illegal parking spots in these bus stops, and it can be sent to the city immediately for review. It's a really quick process, and it allows the city to issue citations, like I said, very quickly, and so it will help keep bike lanes clear, or it’ll keep bus lanes clear, and it will help just make roads safer.

GJ: What did you think, Ileana?

IG: I think this is such a great idea. Even in my tiny little Texas town, we have bike lanes, and you always see people parked in them blocking the way. It's really dangerous. I did used to live in Washington, D.C., and we had specific bus lanes. I thought those were awesome, but we also had the problem of people were always parking in it, and it really messed up the bus schedule, So I think this is a great way to deter that, and unfortunately, the best way to stop people from doing it is to issue a citation, hit 'em with that fee, so I think it's really effective.

GJ: Well, good job, Brandon. That was a really great interview, and next up before we sign off, we're going to have a little bit of a history lesson. Ileana, want to take it away?

IG: Alright. So have either of y'all heard about the Great Rooster Auction of 1919?

BL: No.

GJ: The Rooster Auction.

IG: The Rooster Auction. Get your tail feathers ready. So the Dixie Overland Highway was close to completion in 1919, and this highway stretched from San Diego, California, to Savannah, Georgia. Super close to finishing, but they had one problem. The only major waterway without a bridge was the Tom Bigby River and West Alabama Alabamans. If I mispronounced that incorrectly, I'm sorry, but it looks like Tom Bigby. They needed this bridge to connect to counties, the people in the counties really on board. They wanted this bridge to help connect their communities. They raised half the funds, but they needed the other half to build this bridge, to finish the highway, so they had an unconventional idea. They involved a man named Frank Derby Sr. and Mr. Derby had a history of unique fundraisers. He raised over $73,000 for the Red Cross by selling Shorthorn Bulls.

GJ: Huh, wow.

IG: Yes. Whoa. And so he came back with another animal centric idea. He came up with a slogan, “Bridge the Bigbee with Cocks.” In this case, he's mean and roosters.

GJ: Wow.

IG: They threw this event. It was an auction to enter the amphitheater. They served barbecue. They had all these attractions. Attendees had to purchase and wear a rooster button that cost $2 each. There was the mascot rooster on the photo, and his slogan, “Bridge the Bigbee with Cocks” on the button. They sold about 11,000 buttons at the auction. I know what you're thinking though: Where are the actual roosters coming in? And they got celebrities to donate roosters to be sold off at this auction. And the big celebrities of 1919 were U.S. President Woodrow Wilson, the English Prime Minister, the French Prime Minister and then the Italian Prime Minister.

GJ: So the most favorite people in the world. Those are not really what you think. That isn't who you think of when you think of celebrities. No, there weren't any silent movie stars or anything like that.

IG: There were a few more, but those were the most powerful roosters that were auctioned off. I'm not sure if people were maybe trying to get state secrets. More pop celebrities were Mary Pickford. Fatty Arbuckle.

GJ: There you go.

IG: Yep. And then Helen Keller donated not a rooster because she thought it would be unladylike. She donated a little blue hen and the hen laid an egg during the auction. That egg sold for $15,000. Again, this is 1919. This is over 100 years ago, so I mean $15,000 does a lot from an egg today. President Woodrow Wilson's rooster sold for 55,000, which was the highest bid of the auction.

BL: Oh my God.

IG: And they ended up collecting $65,000 for this bridge.

GJ: That is insane. That is so cool. That is so much fun compared to a GoFundMe.

IG: Definitely. You're walking away with something that's really helpful. You have a rooster that's helping your farm, I'm guessing. And I'll leave you today with an assignment. Go onto Google. Google the 1919 rooster auction, and you will see a photo in Washington, D.C., and it's Woodrow Wilson standing in front of four cages with the roosters and each cage is from the Prime Ministers. It's from the President, so there's a little flag with the country that it's from on the rooster cage. Woodrow Wilson is standing out there smiling, chuckling, look like he's having a good time, so I would recommend Googling that. It's such a great encapsulation of this odd piece of bridge history.

GJ: Thank you so much for that history lesson. While you were talking, I googled Mary Pickford because I had never heard that before, and Mary Pickford was a silent film actress of the time. but no Douglas Fairbanks. NoCharlie Chaplin. We get one leading lady in Mary Pickford and then world leaders. That is really cool. And Helen Keller.

IG: So I got to ask you, if you're starting an auction to build a rotor, a bridge, what would you use?

BL: Ooh, that's a good question.

GJ: Dogs.

BL: Dogs. I feel like everybody wants dogs. I mean, obviously some people aren't animal lovers, but I feel like in today's society, dogs are the most popular pet.

IG: Yeah.

GJ: Puppies for bridges. That is so cool. That is so cool. Well, thank you so much for that, Ileana. That was wild. And now we have to wrap things up. Season 2, episode one in the books. Thank you to Endeavor Business Media, our parent company. Thank you to Brandon Lewis for that excellent interview, and thank you to Ileana Garnand and welcome to the show, your first ITP, and you crushed it with that history lesson. And we also want to thank you, the listener. Please shoot us an email at [email protected]. Tell us what you think of the show. Give us ideas. What tech should we be talking about? Give us ideas on kooky history that we need to bring into the show. Give us ideas for Two Truths and a Lie, other trivia that you want us to talk about, or just say hello, tell us what you think of the show. Anything else before we go, Brandon?

BL: Yes. Quick announcement that we are going to be doing this weekly now. We are not going every week, so we will be back next week with an interview from Gavin that is fantastic, and as we've always said on this ITP, great interview, and it's going to be another great one, but we will not be back on September 16th. We will be back on September 9th. We're going weekly this season.

GJ: Okay, well, we'll see you next week. Until then, stay tuned.